I certainly don't think anyone is suggesting that CJ would be a party to anything shady at all. As far as I know VT has lived there since 2008/9. CJ would know him as a respectable architect, intelligent and of high standing. If he did use his car for a criminal act, CJ certainly would not have known about it. It is only another theory to explain why CJ, apart from gossip, was suddenly arrested in suspicion of the murder of Joanna.
GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #10
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I certainly don't think anyone is suggesting that CJ would be a party to anything shady at all. As far as I know VT has lived there since 2008/9. CJ would know him as a respectable architect, intelligent and of high standing. If he did use his car for a criminal act, CJ certainly would not have known about it. It is only another theory to explain why CJ, apart from gossip, was suddenly arrested in suspicion of the murder of Joanna.
Malaconotus
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I have to say I'm slightly bemused by the turn this discussion has taken. Why is anyone assuming that VT does not own a car? Because he rides a bike or commutes by bike and train? The Netherlands has a higher rate of car ownership than the UK but 27% of all journeys are made by bike. Even here most people who cycle regularly also own cars. But using the bike is healthier, more fun, cheaper, and often quicker.
To me there is a straightforward narrative which requires none of this fanciful complicity of CJ or any other car owner. If we simply assume that (1) VT was booked to fly to Schipol in the early hours of the 18th and (2) either owns a car or has the use of a shared car with TM, then none of this complex conspiracy is needed.
(A) TM is at a function at least until late evening which VT does not attend because he is leaving for the airport in the early hours (and might not want to attend anyway if it is TM's works Xmas function, for example)
(B) VT has a plausible reason to be driving a vehicle right up to his flat door and loading it with large bags and heading west across the Clifton Suspension Bridge in the early hours. (presumably why the police were not immediately hugely suspicious of his movements)
(C) VT is alone for the evening in the neighbouring flat to JY, and he knows that GR is out of town.
The exact mechanics of the murder itself need not concern us; there are any number of plausible scenarios whereby the murder occurred in either flat, and the flat was left as GR found it, possibly with a missing ski holdall and/or an attempted clean-up/cover-up. Once VT is in possession of JY's keys, he is free to come and go between the flats with little chance of being seen.
Finally the heavy snowfall causes VT's flight to be cancelled and he travels on the 19th instead, but he is still out of the country, and the body is concealed by the same snow, when the alarm is raised in the early hours of the 20th by GR and JY's parents.
All the above is consistent with what we do know from A&S police, and from the insights of posters like Nausicaa and Aneurin, and introduces the minimum of additional supposition. So where does the need to borrow a car, or for anyone else to be complicit, arise? Where is the need to move a body over a 12-foot wall to the rear or side of the property?
DISCLAIMER: The above speculation is entirely that, and makes no assumption about VT's guilt or otherwise, which will be properly determined in court.
To me there is a straightforward narrative which requires none of this fanciful complicity of CJ or any other car owner. If we simply assume that (1) VT was booked to fly to Schipol in the early hours of the 18th and (2) either owns a car or has the use of a shared car with TM, then none of this complex conspiracy is needed.
(A) TM is at a function at least until late evening which VT does not attend because he is leaving for the airport in the early hours (and might not want to attend anyway if it is TM's works Xmas function, for example)
(B) VT has a plausible reason to be driving a vehicle right up to his flat door and loading it with large bags and heading west across the Clifton Suspension Bridge in the early hours. (presumably why the police were not immediately hugely suspicious of his movements)
(C) VT is alone for the evening in the neighbouring flat to JY, and he knows that GR is out of town.
The exact mechanics of the murder itself need not concern us; there are any number of plausible scenarios whereby the murder occurred in either flat, and the flat was left as GR found it, possibly with a missing ski holdall and/or an attempted clean-up/cover-up. Once VT is in possession of JY's keys, he is free to come and go between the flats with little chance of being seen.
Finally the heavy snowfall causes VT's flight to be cancelled and he travels on the 19th instead, but he is still out of the country, and the body is concealed by the same snow, when the alarm is raised in the early hours of the 20th by GR and JY's parents.
All the above is consistent with what we do know from A&S police, and from the insights of posters like Nausicaa and Aneurin, and introduces the minimum of additional supposition. So where does the need to borrow a car, or for anyone else to be complicit, arise? Where is the need to move a body over a 12-foot wall to the rear or side of the property?
DISCLAIMER: The above speculation is entirely that, and makes no assumption about VT's guilt or otherwise, which will be properly determined in court.
Consentual sex, I suppose might be a defense.
I believe it was stated in a previous thread that 'partial DNA' in itself does not a conviction make. Might not even be admissible.
LE is going to have to have a lot of evidence in this case, and more than circumstantial to get a conviction, unless there is a confession.
If there is no confession (which I expect), my money is on VT hiring one of the best criminal lawyers in the country. In fact they'll all be beating down his door begging to represent him pro bono. Such a high profile case it is and will continue to be. I feel sorry for the innocent people it'll drag in.
Hold on to your hats, folks!
NIWDI (no idea who did it)
Curious Alice
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Can anyone confirm which/how many apartments at 44 the LL owned please ?
I am sure I read he owned some, but not all of the flats after purchasing them from Clifton College.
Are we certain that CJ is in fact, VT & TM's landlord ?
I am sure I read he owned some, but not all of the flats after purchasing them from Clifton College.
Are we certain that CJ is in fact, VT & TM's landlord ?
Truth Hunter
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Detectives find no link to Glenis Carruthers murder.
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...cold-case/article-3105141-detail/article.html
wfgodot
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The term entered popular culture after Lee Harvey Oswald, following the killing of JFK, famously said, "I'm just a patsy."
Pisces Cloud
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They found no significant links, which I don't think rules it out completely. They have bound to have connected Hardyman to the party in 1974, for a start, but he wasn't a suspect then or now. Trouble with the Glenis case is that they had so little to go on forensic wise.
Lots of ingredints! lol
Luna15
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I'm already feeling damned uncomfortable; if she wasn't the weeping girl, it could be the one in Chile... either way, I need to say it - something just dont 'feel' right in all this.
Switch the t&s around and you have 'pasty'..... might be why it has you thinking of pies
Truth Hunter
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Remembered reading this article last year in the Bristol Evening Post - quite a few unsolved murders in the Bristol area... but many more solved as well by
A & S.
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...l-murders/article-1406373-detail/article.html
Malaconotus
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No, we do not know that at all.
The flats were converted and sold off by Clifton College in 1992 and CJ, GH, and at least one other then-current or former schoolmasters purchased the flats in which they now live. CJ purchased Flat 1 from another of the other former schoolmasters in March 1999.
The ownership of Flat 2 appears not to have changed since 1999 at least, but it is entirely unclear who the owner is AFAIK.
Pisces Cloud
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Could a chemistry teacher know anything about this stuff? I ask because I think there's a person who used to be one who lives there, and so could have unwittingly passed on info about such things.
I think people from an older generation are more likely to have heard of the term. So, showing my age there.
Patticake
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What if VT has another friend/girl, good looking dutch guy, intelligent, succsessful, Unrequited love, jealousy, someone he worked with. It wouldnt be unheard of for a girl to cry wolf when they have been rejected and has said something to LE to convince them. As far as we know the DNA is still only partial which can rule someone out -but not rule them positively in. JMO
Why would someone do that!?,
I expect the FSS did LCN (Low Copy Numbers) on the partial DNA, and if it was possible from doing that, the FSS then obtained a clearer reading of who's DNA was on JY.
Its not just DNA that makes a Case, although DNA could be a big part of the Case,I expect the LE does have other substantial evidence against VT, because the Crown Prosecution Service are going ahead with this Case.
We will eventually know all the details I expect.
Tomorrow VT will appear in Court probably for about a Minute to give his name and Address and VT will be charged, then VT will be remanded in Custody, till his next Court appearance, which will be at a later Date.
The Trail wont be for a while, there is a lot of work to be done by everyone.
That seems to make sense. Since the accused was out of the country from Dec 19 until the New Year, either he is involved and Joanna was left at the quarry from Dec 18th on, or he is not involved. I suspect that this could be a key point during trial.
I still find the coincidences that surround that particular property in regards to the 1974 event uncomfortable.
And that does not even take into account the previous unsavoury happenings in GR/JY's flat.
wfgodot
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Daily Star drops this tidbit in at the bottom of their "Jo family's worst day" Monday article:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/173347/Jo-Yeates-Family-prepare-for-worst-day/
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/173347/Jo-Yeates-Family-prepare-for-worst-day/
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