GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #10

[little_miss_smart]

Check out the Daily Mail article linked to earlier it seems TM is considered very much part of the family and is supporting him.

Totally agree on the EW thing I posted a similar opinion earlier this morning.

Yes I saw that. Maybe another reason why she can't admit to tipping the police off, she feels like she is letting her family down, even though they are not her family, they are seen that way.

Reports are very mixed and it's difficult to know what to believe, I know you shouldn't believe everything you read and most of it should be taken with a pinch of salt. But, most reports say a woman who called them was crying and she tipped the police off. Some reports have said it is the girlfriend. And some have said she is a significant witness.

 

[Colombo]

Check out the Daily Mail article linked to earlier it seems TM is considered very much part of the family and is supporting him.

Totally agree on the EW thing I posted a similar opinion earlier this morning.

re my previous spost on the police scenario and the latest prees reports

I would suggest the 'weeping woman ' is neither TM or EW

it is VERY LIKELY the sister of EW who is 'in London' but apparently also owns the flat in Aberdeen Road

 

[little_miss_smart]

re my previous spost on the police scenario and the latest prees reports

I would suggest the 'weeping woman ' is neither TM or EW

it is VERY LIKELY the sister of EW who is 'in London' but apparently also owns the flat in Aberdeen Road

double post

 

[brownbread]

I didn't know the Bridge Valley Road was closed so thanks for that. I still don't see Clifton Bridge as the most straightforward route because it makes more sense just to drive down to the Avon bridge but it's debatable I suppose.

It will be interesting to find out the time-line given by VT and TM for that weekend. Is that likely to come out before a trial?

The main thing is for it to have been a plausible route for a plausible reason. Sometimes the routes people travel are based on habit, familiarity etc. The fact it wasn't what on paper appears to be the best route doesn't rule it out.

Of course if we are talking about the vehicle that was carrying JY's body, the reason for taking an indirect route is obvious. If this whole thing is true, it had to be suspicious enough to refocus police attention, but inconclusive enough that it would take a further three weeks of evidence gathering to lead to an arrest.

 

[little_miss_smart]

re my previous spost on the police scenario and the latest prees reports

I would suggest the 'weeping woman ' is neither TM or EW

it is VERY LIKELY the sister of EW who is 'in London' but apparently also owns the flat in Aberdeen Road

Why was she crying? And why come forward now, why not before?

For me the person took so long to come forward because of emotional ties to VT.

EWs sister as far as I know would have no emotional ties to VT so would have no difficulty shopping him if she had info.

The appeal was the key to the person coming forward, I think the only women who would be crying when calling the police would be his girlfriend, mother or sister, someone close to him. JMO

 

[bees]

Interesting that VT previously told reporters he was away on the night JY went missing. He could be referring to the 19th - the night she was reported missing. This would then be true as he'd left the country. I can't see any reports of him saying he was away on the Friday night, the 17th and according to CJ, he was there early evening.

 

[Myserty64]

I keep thinking there is an underlying factor to the madness that is this murder/mystery.

A vivacious and well educated young woman is dead.
A very well educated young man is charged with her murder.
The Victorian era building in which they both lived houses interesting characters.
One other person was arrested for this murder.

What has gone on here?

Can it be an eternal triangle?
Secret dalliances?
Just a moment of uncontrolled anger?
Wild fantasies leading to a murder?

I cannot make sense of this, fair go. Is there more to come?

 

[weeeva]

The only problem I have with the "woman in tears" being EW is that she is in Chile, would she really be on top of current affairs in the UK whilst travelling ?

Hi Chester,
Yes I think EW would want to keep herself up to date with what was happening at home, because her friend TM lived in the same building and next door to the possible murder scene.
I know if it was me who was abroad when all of this was going on and I had concerns about my friend and suspicions about VT, I would be calling family and friends or reading British newspapers to keep myself updated. Or perhaps it was a joint decision of the two sister's that one of them call the police.
JMO

 

[Chester]

I keep thinking there is an underlying factor to the madness that is this murder/mystery.

A vivacious and well educated young woman is dead.
A very well educated young man is charged with her murder.
The Victorian era building in which they both lived houses interesting characters.
One other person was arrested for this murder.

What has gone on here?

Can it be an eternal triangle?
Secret dalliances?
Just a moment of uncontrolled anger?
Wild fantasies leading to a murder?

I cannot make sense of this, fair go. Is there more to come?

The first part of your post sounds like the back cover of a murder mystery novel.

 

[Chester]

Hi Chester,
Yes I think EW would want to keep herself up to date with what was happening at home, because her friend TM lived in the same building and next door to the possible murder scene.
I know if it was me who was abroad when all of this was going on and I had concerns about my friend and suspicions about VT, I would be calling family and friends or reading British newspapers to keep myself updated. Or perhaps it was a joint decision of the two sister's that one of them call the police.
JMO

I guess we won't know until there is a trial.

 

[bees]

The main thing is for it to have been a plausible route for a plausible reason. Sometimes the routes people travel are based on habit, familiarity etc. The fact it wasn't what on paper appears to be the best route doesn't rule it out.

Of course if we are talking about the vehicle that was carrying JY's body, the reason for taking an indirect route is obvious. If this whole thing is true, it had to be suspicious enough to refocus police attention, but inconclusive enough that it would take a further three weeks of evidence gathering to lead to an arrest.

The tie-in with the sighted bridge crossing airport would also have to assume that he had a plane to catch on the 18th. There was an early Easyjet flight to Amsterdam on the 18th and the airport was closed for a short while first thing but then re-opened. I don't know if any early flights were cancelled that morning as I travelled the next day.

The other point would be why would he used a borrowed car (or his girlfriends) to go to the airport anyway? That would leave their car parked up for 2 weeks and so it seems unlikely. A more likely arrangement would be that they'd planned for the GF to take him to the airport and then have the car for herself.

 

[Suspicious Minds]

re my previous spost on the police scenario and the latest prees reports

I would suggest the 'weeping woman ' is neither TM or EW

it is VERY LIKELY the sister of EW who is 'in London' but apparently also owns the flat in Aberdeen Road

Just what I was thinking, this could be very likely as think flat is co-owned by the sisters and with EW in Chile probably not able to keep up with events, unlike LW (her sister) who I believe was certainly in UK at time of appeal by
parents could well be the sobbing female. It would make sense in that she would be able to liaise between EW and VT and TM and maybe heard/saw things that would obviously go unnoticed by EW.

 

[enzeder]

......

Vincent Tabak will appear at Bristol Crown Court tomorrow for bail hearing over Joanna Yeates murder, magistrates decide.
10 minutes ago via SkyNews Alerts - Breaking

http://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak

 

[ruined detroit]

What is an interpreter doing in court for him? I imagine as English is not his first language they have to make sure he has all services available and the case can't get thrown out on appeal due to him not having one, but jeez, what a con.

Maybe the Mail put this in to raise the ire of their readership base.

 

[naturally suspicious]

I keep thinking there is an underlying factor to the madness that is this murder/mystery.

A vivacious and well educated young woman is dead.
A very well educated young man is charged with her murder.
The Victorian era building in which they both lived houses interesting characters.
One other person was arrested for this murder.

What has gone on here?

Can it be an eternal triangle?
Secret dalliances?
Just a moment of uncontrolled anger?
Wild fantasies leading to a murder?

I cannot make sense of this, fair go. Is there more to come?

i agree on the fact that the houses hold some extremely "interesting" characters...
you really could not make it up, could you...
i wonder if landlord an exhibitionist and wanted a part..innocent..in the mystery...hence the figures he did/ not sure he had seen...
also the previous owner of jo's flat....creepy in the extreme...who knew him and the goings on....
over 3oo people on sex register reported in about 1 square mile of clifton...
...told me by my sister, a social worker...acquainted with this world...

 

[naturally suspicious]

from reading all the 'reports' of the case up to date I believe the police may be following this or variations of the scenario below

the man charged returns home from work on his bike around 6 30 - 7 pm

he is told by the landlord of the property that the male occupant of Jo's flat has had his car jump started and has left for the weekend

he enters his flat and is alone til around 9 pm as his partner is at a works xmas party 30 miles away

he then becomes aware that Jo has returned to her flat

the man charged in some way ends up in Jo's flat and a struggle leading to her death ensues

he then has to dispose of the body before he leaves on vacation on the 18th or 19th ...(this date has to be confirmed) and Jo' partner returns on the 19th night

he wishes to place the crime as occuring outside of the property as a crime at the flat leads back to him as the nearest neighbour

he has no vehicle on the premises as his partners is 30 miles away and she will not return it til Saturday when she is in a fit state to drive

he thus leaves on his bike to Aberdeen Road to a flat the keys to which his partner has been left so as to look after the property / charge the car battery etc as the owner has gone away to her family home for xmas and then will go straight abroad

he uses that car to return to Canynge Road , where it is seen by a motorist blocking the road and forces the motorist to use the pavement to get past it

he then uses the vehicle to drive to Failand where after a number of thwarted attempts to dump the body .. at the golf club and the Clifton College sports field where what is thought to be a light coloured 4 x4 with a hatch back is sighted... he dumps her on the side of the road

this site is chosen as it will allow discovery of the body in a time frame that will allow him to create a breathing space in his mind , but the rapid snow fall that night and the further snow fall on Monday cover it and it remains hidden til the thaw on 24th night / 25 th morning

he then either proceeds to the airport to check in to catch a flight to Holland around 630 am but is told that it has been cancelled

he returns the car to Aberdeen Road and returns home on his bike to 44

he is there when his partner returns either in the early hours of Saturday or later in the day

he then prepares for his vacation and he is driven by his partner to the airport for the 'new' flight on the 19th or for an existing prior booking

he and his partner are interviewed by the police at the stage when it is a missing persons enquiry and their story of hearing nothing etc is believed

he spends xmas away and the case then becomes a murder enquiry and the lanlord is then arrested

the man charged then return on the 4th to start work on the 5th

However with all the turmoil at the house and his parners discomfort on living near a murder scene she has taken up the offer to reside at Aberdeen Road and he joins her there

he returns to the flat at 44 to retrieve clothes and essentials when the time allows and weekends

it is at this time that the owner of a car seen on cctv passing across the bridge is contacted and cleared from the enquiry as he was not in Bristol at the time

the address of the car driver as opposed to the legal keeper is noted and is discovered to be the temporary abode of the couple from the flat next to Jo's

the driver of the car is abroad but her sister has followed the case and on the day of the parents appeal puts things together and calls the police in an emotional state

the man's partner is contacted and asked to clarify her movements on the night of the 17th and her arrival back at home on the 18th

this statement allows a time frame to be constructed where he was alone with no alibi and that the events of the crime could have been carried out

he is being watched and when he is seen to appear to be preparing to flee in a car he is arrested at 2 am taken to the station where his arrest is recorded at 6am

his dna is taken and he is interogated

he does not make a confession and his alibi is that he was seen on the bridge as he was visiting the airport

the dna results returned provide a partial or stronger match to the samples found on Jo's body and with the cctv evidence from the bridge and perhaps elsewhere the police believe they have a case and he is thus charged.

this idea sounds pretty accurate, in my opinion
have you any police training....in any country....
thanks

 

[Chester]

What is an interpreter doing in court for him? I imagine as English is not his first language they have to make sure he has all services available and the case can't get thrown out on appeal due to him not having one, but jeez, what a con.

Maybe the Mail put this in to raise the ire of their readership base.

I believe that it said on his CV that he spoke a very high standard of English (can't check as it was taken down). The interpreter will have been there for the very reason you describe.

The fact that the Daily Mail highlighted it was as you suggest pandering to the xenophobic nature of their readership.

 

[killearn]

Just what I was thinking, this could be very likely as think flat is co-owned by the sisters and with EW in Chile probably not able to keep up with events, unlike LW (her sister) who I believe was certainly in UK at time of appeal by
parents could well be the sobbing female. It would make sense in that she would be able to liaise between EW and VT and TM and maybe heard/saw things that would obviously go unnoticed by EW.

Lets say if TM was at xmas party and VT was due to fly out 18th or 19th or 20th she would return home to take him to the airport. I would think...

Would she return home 17th or 18th from party.

No reports of JY missing as yet.

Twist.

After 9pm on 17th VT could of already had access to EWs home and car unknowing to EW on car. take car disposal body going via bridge, placed car back then goes back home to wait for TM.

EWs car could be in her fathers name as owner or keeper, a car for two sisters to share like the flat is joint usage.

When LE contacted owner no reason to suspect and was informed that the car is with his daughter/s in Bristol.

CCTV images show male..

TM takes VT to airport as normal as planned no real missing persons till 20th logged by GM.

Car put under watch to see if male usage of this car...

Who should turn up after trip from Holland VT.

Maybe not 100% on my dates i'm a newbee... go easy on me...

 

[enzeder]

I believe that it said on his CV that he spoke a very high standard of English (can't check as it was taken down). The interpreter will have been there for the very reason you describe.

The fact that the Daily Mail highlighted it was as you suggest pandering to the xenophobic nature of their readership.

I saved a copy of VT CV. (Link no longer works)

Languages
Dutch (native).
English (fluent speaking & writing).
German (intermediate proficiency).

http://www.ds.arch.tue.nl/Vincent/files/CV Vincent Tabak.pdf

ETA

Cropped

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-suspect-Vincent-Tabak-split-girlfriend.html

 

[whiterum]

Surely if the police spotted a car in which they suspected was the killer on their way to dispose of Jo's body, they are certainly not going to contact the owner and right away eliminate him. They would bring the owner in for questioning or could even arrest him, especially if he were in any way connected to the victim.

It would be imperative to seize that car immediately this was discovered, to preserve any forensic evidence that otherwise may be lost. Other things may then come to light during the questioning that may cast some doubt on the guilt of the owner. Maybe as to whether he was the driver, especially if he claimed that he innocently lent his car to someone.

Just speculation, if the Daily Mail report can be believed.