GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

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Deckard said:
My doubts over the body deposition date were the only thing ruling VT out for me.

"He can't be in two places at once" I thought."Has to be an unknown stalker who can come and go at will."

If it can be proven that the body lay in Longwood Lane since 17th December then it is right that he is the main suspect.

Does anyone have anything resembling a possible alibi timeline for his movements 17th to 25th December?
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To say that he is the main suspect IF the body had lain in Longwood Lane is a bit presumptuous! :)
 
The one thing that has disturbed me about the press in this case is their obsession that JY 'looked uncannily like TM'.

Sorry I couldnt figure out how to paste the pics on here i tried the usual copy n paste

TM:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/224633/Girlfriend-standing-by-%91lovely-Vincent-Tabak%92/

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/22/article-1349505-0CD9E91A000005DC-504_634x771.jpg

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01234/SNN2205BBB-682_1234864a.jpg



JY:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01799/joannaYeates_1799478c.jpg

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/JoYeatesFriend_415.jpg

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/dec2010/5/0/joanna-yeates-112866726.jpg


I cant find any actual pages stating this but I am sure we have all read it. My bad googling

They do NOT look anything alike apart from the fact they have fair hair. Tanja for one has a big jaw.

Again the press trying to sell papers and potentially biasing any jurors in the process
 
angel10510 said:
I wonder what happened with Otto's experiment.
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I put a total of 4 grapefruit outside where there were leaves and things, photographed them when they were put there. This morning, my 15 y.o. son was heading out, noticed four grapefruit neatly arranged on the ground in the front yard ... he assumed that I was completely nuts, collected the grapefruit, brought them in the house with a little smile, and then left. We currently have about 5 cm. of snow on the ground, but essentialy the experiment was terminanted by a concerned child.

grapefruitexper.jpg


I explained that I'm not nuts, but that I was doing an experiment. He said that all the grapefruit, including the one that was at outside temp prior to being put on the snow, were a little bit stuck to the snow. I guess that means that room temp or out door temp isn't a factor, and that one day is enough to start to fix the something into the snow in freezing temps.
 
An observation ... we have about 2 inches of fresh snow, and the dogs toys in the back yard are completely covered in snow ... cannot be seen at all - including a bright orange ball that is 6 inches diameter. In the photo taken near the quarry on Dec 25, we can see from the foot in the snow that it looks to be still about an inch deep.

yeatessnowdec25.jpg
 
Personally, I'm leaning towards Joanna having been murdered on the Friday night, and put in the location near the quarry road not too long afterward.
 
Phillb said:
See for yourself Bees.
The conclusive proof is there if your willing to look for it
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #11
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I think your research into photos is impressive, but most of them are from the centre of Bristol or from Clifton, whereas the heavy snow was reported to be in rural areas to the south of the city. Although I can't find any images from the immediate area in question, the following shows the conditions on high ground about 12 miles south of Failand on the morning of the 18th:

http://www.snow-forecast.com/photos/5638

Who can tell what's under those bumps in the snow? :eek:

Phillb said:
It's also very debateable if Failand is infact higher than Bristol.
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It's on the 145m contour, so its almost 500 feet higher than the centre of Bristol. But of more significance is the fact that the centre of large cities in southern England are rarely affected by heavy snow as they generate their own micro climate, helped by people, traffic, industry and (in the case of Bristol) by the tidal Avon. On the ridges above Bristol, snow patterns can be very different, driven by winds coming up the Bristol Channel and across the Somerset Levels.

But even if the snow in Failand on the 18th was not as heavy as the BBC and police reported, it is worth noting some of the comments made by people in the Longwood Lane area:

"The road is used as a cut-through during the week, but there’s not so much traffic at the weekend."

"There are usually runners and cyclists using the lane at weekends, but there would have been fewer people around because of the snow."

"I didn’t ride along the lane for about 10 days because there was permanent snow or ice ... There was a lot of snow – I can’t remember so much snow falling here since 1982. ... "And we’re quite high up here. It’s windy and the snow does tend to drift."

So, perhaps very few passers by (and probably no quarry traffic) over the weekend, and those who were in Longwood Lane were doubtless concentrating on not slipping on the gradient by the quarry, rather than looking carefully at the verges.

Then, another snowfall on Monday morning, obscuring whatever might have been vaguely visible over the weekend.

I've no idea, of course, if this was the scenario, but I wouldn't discount very poor weather conditions in Failand. I happened to be at South Bristol Crematorium yesterday, which is less than 2 miles from Longwood Lane, and the weather was very much rawer than in the centre of Bristol, just down the hill.
 
enqueteur said:
I'm still grappling with what could possibly be the motive.
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Once GR's been ruled out that's the big question. Why would VT or anyone do that? It being the same killer as the earlier local murder makes more sense than it being VT. Perhaps the police have found something odd too and that's why the LL hasn't been cleared yet. I have also wondered if the killer perhaps did this to put someone from the building into the frame knowing that there's a link to the GC case and they moved the body to make sure that GR wasn't automatically blamed. Anyway, only time will tell and all might become clearer at the trial.
 
I think the police have their man. Nobody wants to think the people they love are capable of such crimes but people do things for a variety of reasons and nobody truly knows us.
When or if it comes out as to how it all came about the jigsaw will fit I'm sure. The police have much more info than we do and IMO it will be a simple explaination.
 
The time scale is crucial here. If it was all over by about 9.30 pm on 17th, it all happened very quickly. If it was the neighbour who came in for a drink, he didn't waste much time trying to build up a rapport. Perhaps he had developed an obsession over a period of time, hearing her voice every day through the walls. He felt he knew her, fantasised about her, even lost touch with reality and believed he was in some kind of relationship with her. On that evening, he knew the b/f was away and decided to make a move. To do this, he might have a few drinks (or a lot) to give himself courage. He goes in, she's her usual friendly self, and he is overwhelmed by his desire for her. He misinterprets her signals and makes a move. She screams to get him off her, and he just wants to stop her screaming. Her fear might have triggered it. Fear is contagious, and it made him panic.
 
enqueteur said:
I'm still grappling with what could possibly be the motive.
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How's this for a motive to tie in with the police not believing it was explicitly sexual.

It has been reported in the press by his friends and acquaintances in the Netherlands that VT was a quiet studious type who wasn't interested in bars and clubs.

What if Jo liked her music loud. She comes home, kicks off her boots, opens the cider and cranks up the stereo.

VT is alone. He's had over two months of this. He is seething from the noise pollution once again booming from flat 1. He knows GR is gone and Jo is on her own for the first time since she moved in. He feels more able to confront her on her own than with GR there.

That's it, he's had enough. Bangs on Jo's door to give her what for. She tells him to take a hike and in a rage he snaps. It doesn't take long. She's lifeless. He wipes his mouth from the exertion. Like moshimoshi hypothesised VT panics and tries to revive Jo to no avail. Ironically in trying to bring her back from death he implicates himself by transferring partial saliva DNA to her chest, stomach and jeans.

I would add that some people who are suffering from depression, as a symptom, have a more acute reaction to loud noises. It literally drives them nuts.
 
Deckard said:
What if Jo liked her music loud. She comes home, kicks off her boots, opens the cider and cranks up the stereo.

VT is alone. He's had over two months of this. He is seething from the noise pollution once again booming from flat 1. He knows GR is gone and Jo is on her own for the first time since she moved in. He feels more able to confront her on her own than with GR there.

That's it, he's had enough. Bangs on Jo's door to give her what for. She tells him to take a hike and in a rage he snaps.
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The trouble with any "VT snapped" theory is that there is not the slightest evidence to show he was short-tempered - quite the opposite, in fact.

Even if loud music had been a problem, he has the intelligence to have discussed the matter at an early stage before things got out of hand and, if that hadn't worked, would have asked the council's noise abatement office to step in.

Also, I suspect that CJ on the floor above would have been the first to complain about loud music.
 
veggiefan said:
The trouble with any "VT snapped" theory is that there is not the slightest evidence to show he was short-tempered - quite the opposite, in fact.

Even if loud music had been a problem, he has the intelligence to have discussed the matter at an early stage before things got out of hand and, if that hadn't worked, would have asked the council's noise abatement office to step in.

Also, I suspect that CJ on the floor above would have been the first to complain about loud music.
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To "snap" I would suggest you would have to be "quiet" in the first instance.

CJ lived in the flat above VT, not Jo.

Noise anxiety has the possibility to manifest itself in aggressive behaviour.
Even had he approached the council beforehand this does not preclude VT taking matters into his own hands.

Google noise pollution murder and it will throw up plenty of cases. The noise doesn't even have to be loud. In one Swedish case the perp killed his neighbour because "his floor boards creaked"!
 
Phillb said:
Just show me one deep snow picture at anytime Dec 17th-25th. Or one Weather report, One news article.That's all. You then prove me wrong.

I'm going to leave this snow thing now. What matters is to use good evidence through observation, context of judgment, and all relevant criteria for making the judgment well. That's called critical thinking.

You form your opinion, and I'll certainly be sticking with mine :)
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Well I believe that people have already posted the BBC link that reports that;

About 2in (5cm) of snow fell widely across the city on Saturday morning with more reported in rural locations to the south of Bristol. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12025793

Personally I find the argument that something hasn't happened unless there are photographs on Flickr showing it to have happpened to be rather absurd. There are, after all, no photographs on Flickr showing Jo's dead body, but we all seem to be operating on the basis that she is.
 
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