GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[Phillb]

"the body itself was discovered at the first available opportunity in its final location"

Yes, but the 'first available....VISIBLE...opportunity in its final location.. Visibility being available AFTER thawing of a heavy snowfall.

No deep snow Mikey, 2'' maximum all week. Christmas morning weather was bone chilling overnight, no snow melt occured that night, or all week. It didn't start to thaw until Boxing day.

Christmas Eve weather and snow depth in Bristol. This is taken in Clifton Down, around 2 miles from Longwood Lane. Jo's body would be found less than 24 hours later. That snow depth can't hide a body IMO.

 

[Luna15]

Alarm bells anyone !!

possible picking someone up from the party that was going on in the house opposite? ....... just a thought.

 

[Luna15]

Just seen this:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...ent-tabak-feels-safe-in-jail-115875-22878251/

bit of a contrasting story.....

THE man charged with the murder of Jo Yeates has been placed on suicide watch in prison.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...es-murder-put-on-suicide-watch-in-prison.html

 

[Lynn R]

No deep snow Mikey, 2'' maximum all week. Christmas morning weather was bone chilling overnight, no snow melt occured that night, or all week. It didn't start to thaw until Boxing day.

Christmas Eve weather and snow depth in Bristol. This is taken in Clifton Down, around 2 miles from Longwood Lane. Jo's body would be found less than 24 hours later. That snow depth can't hide a body IMO.

but IF her body was found covered in snow as the press reports then surely it must have gone undiscovered?

Do you think they got that wrong?

 

[Patticake]

I too was very surprised that the crimewatch reconstruction...together with an appeal by her family and boyfriend Greg Reardon was not televised tonight. At first I thought that, maybe the police had enough evidence but..bearing in mind how much a reconstruction on this scale costs...and including an appeal by the boyfriend and parents...I now cannot understand why the L/E would not use it to gather additional information unless...there was something within it/or something someone said..that may be used in a future prosecution?

I, personally, find this police force very scary, they arrested C/J...on what he had said...AND FOR NO OTHER REASON. Now, they have another 'suspect' that they have charged. Personally, (and I do realise that we are not privvy to any of the police evidence) I have many doubts about their motives in arresting and charging the current suspect. Do I think they have the right man?..the answer has to be NO. Do I think they are desperate to charge someone?..the answer is YES. Do I think they may have a good idea of who they would like to charge...but cannot...YES YES YES.

But, their frustration in not being able to get the right man should not allow them to pick a scapegoat from a list of those who fit the profile.

I really hope the L/E have 100% case against this guy....otherwise God help them..and J/Ys poor family in bringing this very sad saga to an end.

I'm curious ... do you think the police would actually charge NUA with murder, allow a trial to go on, possibly convicted and jailed while wanting to charge someone else?

Shocking!


.

 

[Phillb]

but IF her body was found covered in snow as the press reports then surely it must have gone undiscovered?

Do you think they got that wrong?

It's the press quotes isn't it?
Everyone assumed she had been murdered on the 17th, they still do, even the Police. So the press naturally assumed it had been there for 7 days, the reason it hadn't been found is because 'It must have been covered in snow' they thought

Don't believe all you read in the press, no official mention of her being covered in snow. My guess is there was overnight frost on the body, but no snow.

I read first reports saying she was covered in leaves and snow, and that her body was found outside of a Golf club. That's well off the mark.

 

[Lynn R]

bit of a contrasting story.....

THE man charged with the murder of Jo Yeates has been placed on suicide watch in prison.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...es-murder-put-on-suicide-watch-in-prison.html

Wouldnt they always put someone charged with this sort of crime on suicide watch/? - just the sun trying to sell papers reporting the natural process of police procedure - IMO of course!!

 

[Lynn R]

It's the press quotes isn't it?
Everyone assumed she had been murdered on the 17th, they still do, even the Police. So the press on the scene of the body site naturally assumed it had been there for 7 days, the reason it hadn't been found is because 'It must have been covered in snow' they thought

Don't believe all you read in the press, no official mention of her being covered in snow. My guess is there was overnight frost on the body, but no snow.

I read first reports saying she was covered in leaves and snow, and that her body was found outside of a Golf club.

Absolutely, they could well be jumping to conclusions - chinese whispers etc... sells a story better too - poor victim covered in snow - pulls on the heart strings. You could well be right and again - a great point for the defence if the body was freshly lain.

 

[mikeymot]

"Glad you join me in the 'Christmas morning' Stalwart bunch.
As Delboy used to say to Rodney 'you know it makes sense'

Yes, but don't forget Phil...he also used to call Rodney a Plonker!!!

 

[enqueteur]

As it was close to Christmas perhaps the killer felt guilty that her body wouldn't be discovered for months/years and wanted her found earlier...

Do you remember the appeal JY's parents gave Dec 23rd? In it her lovely father said something like: if you have her, let her go...if she's dead, tell somebody where she is, we want her back whatever...

And the killer gave her back, where she could be easily found.

THE man charged with the murder of Jo Yeates has been placed on suicide watch in prison.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...in-prison.html

No offense, Luna, but isn't The Sun a bit of a sensational, full of malarkey rag?

Perhaps tomorrow will bring news on CJ's bail.

 

[mikeymot]

Does sound unbelievable doesn't it...but then, reading the terrible mistakes by police in the Rachel Nickell murder....THAT RESULTED IN ANOTHER MOTHER AND HER CHILD BEING MURDERED....makes anything...believable. Sadly, when all of us stop asking questions and accept what the L/E and press tell us...is the time we relinquish our human rights altogether.

 

[Phillb]

"Glad you join me in the 'Christmas morning' Stalwart bunch.
As Delboy used to say to Rodney 'you know it makes sense'

Yes, but don't forget Phil...he also used to call Rodney a Plonker!!!

But in the nicest possible sense Mikey

If V.T is guilty, then he deserves all he's going to get, but if the guy is innocent, then this is a shocking miscarriage of justice.

If I were his defence team, I would be making a big thing of how long the body really was in that lane. Talking to the Dog walkers, the people who use it regular. The weather conditions and snow depth are crucial. The Quarry workers too.

I have an awful feeling the Police may have the killer on C.C.T.V they aren't even looking at. The Christmas morning footage. That would be absolutely scandalous if so. If the body was placed there on Christmas morning, then V.T was in Cambridge with a very strong alibi.

 

[Cerebral]

I think it is safe to say that the body was frozen solid when found. For that to happen in the ambient conditions prevalent on Longwood lane on Dec 25 morning it would only to have been there required a few hours before it was frozen solid by its 9am discovery. Mind you with windchill factored in the body would have frozen very quickly.

All news reports at the time say the body was only partially covered in "snowdrift" - Daily Mail... not even light snowfall lightly covering the entire body.

However the accuracy of the news reports is debatable but the bottom line appears the body was only lightly covered by snow and very close to the edge of the road, by the quarry entrance. Going by the brother's description the body was probably well preserved since death either by being completely frozen since death, or being in extremely cold, chilled surroundings since death.

Lugging around a dead body discreetly and hurriedly one would imagine being difficult...if it were a frozen one..being moved I'd imagine it being extremely difficult to do..and hence the road side quick dumping.

Killer was probably eager simply to get rid of the body...and did a quick 'heave-ho' directly from the vehicle. He probably did not have the time nor want to take the risk of spending even several minutes to carry or drag the body in to the wooded areas close by..but wanted a rapid dumping.

The question is..where was the body hidden in between? It had to have been in a sensitive location to move it in the first place...and one that exposed the body at least to low temperatures if not freezing outdoor ones.

Btw, great work Phil on the maps and locating the position of the body on Google Streetview based on the tent.

 

[enqueteur]

The Daily Mirror says the opposite of The Sun:

VT feels safe in jail.

 

[Lynn R]

Does sound unbelievable doesn't it...but then, reading the terrible mistakes by police in the Rachel Nickell murder....THAT RESULTED IN ANOTHER MOTHER AND HER CHILD BEING MURDERED....makes anything...believable. Sadly, when all of us stop asking questions and accept what the L/E and press tell us...is the time we relinquish our human rights altogether.

Its interesting isnt it how actually the police seem to have got it wrong in high profile cases so many times:

Rachel Nickell
Jill Dando
Birmingham 6
Meredith Kercher (very dubious DNA evidence) and countless others

As a society we believe/want/expect that the police have the evidence necessary to convict someone - but actually - looking back you have to wonder.

 

[Phillb]

It really is the question could a body have lain undicovered for 7 days in that depth of snow cover?

This screen shot was taken not long after the body was found, you can see the Red top of the male dog walker still there. You can judge how shallow the depth of snow really is by the Policemans foot on the grass verge. The snow only comes to the sole of his boot. Half an inch at most, would that be sufficient to hide a body? :waitasec:

You can see there had been no recent snowfall for several days, the tree branches are snow free.
The main snow event occured in the early hours of Saturday the 18th. Not much snow (If any at all) accumulated much after that 18th Dec date.

There was no thaw of snow in Bristol from the 17th to the 25th December. It remained sub zero tempretures until the thaw set in on Boxing day. A once snow covered body would not have been revealed under those weather conditions.

The chances of that body not being found for 7 days are slim to negligible IMO.

 

[Lynn R]

It really is the question could a body have lain undicovered for 7 days in that depth of snow cover?

This screen shot was taken not long after the body was found, you can see the Red top of the male dog walker still there. You can judge how shallow the depth of snow really is by the Policemans foot on the grass verge. The snow only comes to the sole of his boot. Half an inch at most?
You can see there had been no recent snowfall for several days, tops of fences, the tree branches are snow free.

There was no thaw of snow in Bristol from the 17th to the 25th December. It remained sub zero tempretures until the thaw set in on Boxing day.

The chances of that body not being found for 7 days are slim to negligable IMO.

True, it looks highly unlikely BUT read the bottom paragraphs of this article entitled 'suspicious'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...scene-after-dumping-her-body-115875-22842873/

again just a witnesses opinion

 

[Deckard]

The one thing I can see from the position of the quarry entrance dump site which could work in the killer's favour is the fact that they would have a choice of a north or south escape route if disturbed rather than being in the narrow lane itself and having to back up in an emergency.

As you say Phil, with that level of snow cover, surely it is not viable for the body to have been there since the 17th.

 

[Phillb]

The one thing I can see from the position of the quarry entrance dump site which could work in the killer's favour is the fact that they would have a choice of a north or south escape route if disturbed rather than being in the narrow lane itself and having to back up in an emergency.

As you say Phil, with that level of snow cover, surely it is not viable for the body to have been there since the 17th.

The Quarry entrance is the obvious pull in/turning point along the lane. You wouldn't even chance stopping in the middle of the lane at anytime. A car can always come along at any hour.

 

[Phillb]

True, it looks highly unlikely BUT read the bottom paragraphs of this article entitled 'suspicious'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...scene-after-dumping-her-body-115875-22842873/

again just a witnesses opinion

Yes I've seen those Lynn.
One of the Paper headlines was a little more imaginative.

Hunt for 4x4 seen prowling Jo death road

The 4X4 wasn't the only suspicious activity around there at the time. There was the White van man in a wooly hat who sped off for no apparent reason. Men seen vaulting fences in the dead of night, and two men soaked running out of the woods at 6 a.m.

As far as I know they stopped appealing for the 4X4 after several drivers came forward. Certainly it hasn't been mentioned with any great urgency for a few weeks now.