GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #14

[bijoux]

We must keep in mind that he has admitted that he killed her, so that does not have to be proved.

Yep, that was my first point back there in my post.

the defence ...would need to show that she died very quickly, which is not apparently the case.

I want to hear the evidence from both autopsy reports before I decide that is fact.

I want motive, I want premeditation, and evidence of both please.

Does the prosecution start calling witnesses tomorrow, Cherwell?

 

[bijoux]

They don't have to prove that it was premeditated.

It would help their case, though.

 

[Redgoblin]

One area of concern I have is prior to VT's arrest they did actually arrest CJ and while they did not charge him he was their prime suspect, for a short time at any rate.

There are some people 'out there' on the net who have been saying well... VT could have been put under pressure by LE for a confession and not given due process. I'll link to the article - Attach what merit or lack of credibility as you will to it -


http://www.suffolkstrangler.com/vincenttabak.htm

 

[Cherwell]

I thought what might a mother notice straight off that a b/f would not?

My conjecture was a possible reverse Pulp Fiction moment. If JY had been on the toilet after drinking in the bar and heard or saw something which made her react by getting up quickly and obviously not flushing. Something simple like that might make her parents feel JY wouldn't leave it like that. She was caught short.

The problem with this is that Greg was in the flat for hours before Jo's parents turned up, and would surely have used the toilet himself at some time.

Yep, that was my first point back there in my post.

I want to hear the evidence from both autopsy reports before I decide that is fact.

I want motive, I want premeditation, and evidence of both please.

Does the prosecution start calling witnesses tomorrow, Cherwell?

Yes, I agree, I'm sure we all want to hear the detailed evidence. I think we originally got the impression that there were very few signs of violence found on Jo - hence suggestions like the vagal inhibition theory - but of course we were not being told everything then.

Yes, I think we will hear the first prosecution witnesses tomorrow.

There are some people 'out there' on the net who have been saying well... VT could have been put under pressure by LE for a confession and not given due process. I'll link to the article - Attach what merit or lack of credibility as you will to it
http://www.suffolkstrangler.com/vincenttabak.htm

This person is well-known if not notorious as having an axe to grind. I wouldn't waste too much time on him.

 

[Redgoblin]

This person is well-known if not notorious as having an axe to grind. I wouldn't waste too much time on him.

I did Tweet him and asked him who he supposed done the deed, he failed to reply.

 

[Cherwell]

One area of concern I have is prior to VT's arrest they did actually arrest CJ and while they did not charge him he was their prime suspect, for a short time at any rate.

I don't suppose we will ever know all the reasons behind his arrest, but we have recently learnt that VT tipped off the police about his possible involvement. That was after his arrest, of course, but it may well be that someone else had earlier made allegations against him. As a keyholder CJ would of course have had access to the flat, and that alone would have made him a prime suspect.

 

[Cherwell]

I did Tweet him and asked him who he supposed done the deed, he failed to reply.

I'd say he's not so much pro-VT as anti- police and legal establishment. A conspiracy theorist. He doesn't really care about VT (and certainly not any of the victims), he just uses him and others to further his own causes.

 

[konformation]

VT could have seen JY through the kitchen window and panicked, hid in the bathroom behind the shower curtain. JY left her coat etc on the floor and went to the kitchen to drink the cider and consider having some food. she had a few mouthfuls and then needed the loo so went to the bathroom. VT meanwhile was thinking of how to escape, maybe have to leave after she'd gone asleep or something - but now she comes into the bathroom.

she is on the toilet and becomes aware of VT behind the curtain. opens it and reveals VT. He attacks her and kills her after a struggle which ends up on the hall floor.

how he transported JT's body to the car is important IMO.

sadly all we know is that she died in a horrible way and even VT might have blocked out some details - but the timing is critical. I have a feeling he might have knocked her out with a blow to the head initially and then restrained her. when she regained consciousness, he might have pleaded with her not to tell anyone, but then strangled her.

N.B. I was thinking that maybe JY had her period at the time, and had replaced one (while in the bathroom) while leaving the other wrapped in toilet paper beside the toilet etc., to dispose of later. She being interrupted would have left it and maybe that's what JY's mother noticed and concluded her daughter wouldn't have left it lying around. This might account for blood patches also, and might have worsened VT's shame / lessened a sexual-attack on her.

 

[Robin Hood]

Konformation, I tend to agree, I think he was hiding in the bathroom, stood in the bath (there was lots of fingerprint dust in the bath) Jo enters the flat, after her walk home she needs the bathroom, walks in, sees VT and runs for the door. Screams at the door and is pulled back inside.
What I can't get my head around is the timing. For the laymans (the couple who followed Jo and heard the scream) to still be outside to hear the scream it must have happened within seconds of her opening the door. So did VT stage the scene ? remove Jo's coat and boots (pulling off the sock) open the cider and tip some away.

 

[Kristie]

From Huffington Post article as updated 13/10/2011 (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/10/11/joanna-yeates-murder-tria_n_1004636.html)

"The prosecution said Yeates' injuries to her face, side of her head and upper limbs show contact with a roughened surface while she was still alive. The injuries to the front and the back of her body indicated two hands were used to kill her." BBM

 

[aneurin]

...I want motive, I want premeditation, and evidence of both please...

But that's very much your personal requirement; neither are actually required to prove a charge of murder. Or indeed, any other crime for that matter.

I'd say he's not so much pro-VT as anti- police and legal establishment. A conspiracy theorist. He doesn't really care about VT (and certainly not any of the victims), he just uses him and others to further his own causes.

Agreed. In Noel O'Gara's world every single murder in the UK in recent times has resulted in a wrongful conviction. When last heard of, O'Gara was being convicted in his native Ireland for breaches of the Companies Act, and has a criminal conviction in the UK for contempt of court.

 

[veggiefan]

Konformation, I tend to agree, I think he was hiding in the bathroom

The difficulty with any theory that VT was already in the flat is that he wasn't charged with breaking and entering. Technically, that's a charge of burglary (nothing has to be stolen for a charge of burglary - unauthorised entry with an intent to commit damage or GBH is sufficient).

If VT can be shown to have entered the flat without permission, I would have expected the CPS to have included a charge of burglary, not least because there would be something to fall back on if the murder charge failed. (When the charge was made, the CPS had no idea VT would plead guilty to manslaughter, of course).

 

[Cherwell]

I think some people may be focusing on the bathroom because of the amount of forensic activity that clearly took place there. But this will have been done as a matter of routine, because it's an obvious place where the perp (whoever that would turn out to be) might have cleaned himself up. The forensic team would look there as a priority - we don't yet know if they found anything.

 

[Robin Hood]

Some Tweets..


rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Darragh Bellew was with Joanna Yeates when they went into the ram pub on Dec 17

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Joanna Yeates bought Darragh a drink, she was drinking cider. Asked if she was drunk? Darragh says "not at all, jovial, her normal self"
34 minutes ago

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Joanna Yeates told Darragh she was going to bake cakes and bread that weekend as Greg was away.
33 minutes ago

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
When jo went missing Greg told Darragh "it was strange that all of Jo's belongings were there and she herself wasn't"
30 minutes ago

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
When jo went missing Greg told Darragh "it was strange that all of Jo's belongings were there and she herself wasn't"
30 minutes ago

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
"Dreading the weekend because it was first time she was left alone" Jo Yeates told colleague Elisabeth Chandler
26 minutes ago

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Father George Henwood now in witness box. He is the last man to see Jo alive other than Tabak
16 minutes ago

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Father Henwood "I saw woman I believe to be Joanna Yeates. I said "it's slippy isn't it?" she said "yes it is" she was 5 yards away"

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Father Henwood "I was very certain that this (jo) was the individual I met whilst walking the dog"
2 minutes ago

 

[Redgoblin]

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
"Dreading the weekend because it was first time she was left alone" Jo Yeates told colleague Elisabeth Chandler

I don't know about anyone else but I feel especially sad and angry at this.

 

[Robin Hood]

juliareidsky Julia Reid
Father Henwood had also seen a couple nearby that night before he saw the woman he thinks was #Joannayeates.

juliareidsky Julia Reid
Father Henwood did not see where the couple went. #Joannayeates #Vincenttabak
1 minute ago

juliareidsky Julia Reid
Witness Statement from Matthew Phillips teacher from 28 Dec. On 17 dec was at party on canynge rd at top floor flat. #Joannayeates
35 seconds ago »

 

[Clio]

Tweets from Julia Reid (Sky)

Statement from Peter Lindsell who had stayed in contact with #Joannayeates after leaving bdp. On 17th dec she texted him 'where art thou?'

He texted her back and she said she was 'at Clifton ville! On my Todd!' #Joannayeates she recalled enjoying his birthday previously

Doesn't that sound as if she were texting after having got home?

 

[Robin Hood]

juliareidsky Julia Reid
Mr Phillips heard a 'commotion' as he was waiting to go in the party. He said it sounded like a group and one had 'shrieked' #Joannayeates
53 seconds ago

juliareidsky Julia Reid
He thought it may have been students. He went into the party. He left at 1230 and went to a bar then got a cab home. #Joannayeates
1 minute ago

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Matthew Phillips at door to 53 canynge Rd "I heard commotion, more than one voice, one of group had shrieked, did not sound in distress"


rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Vincent Tabak has 4 security guards around him in the dock. He is wearing suit and tie and is breathing into his hands
59 seconds ago

 

[veggiefan]

Witness Statement from Matthew Phillips teacher from 28 Dec. On 17 dec was at party on canynge rd at top floor flat.

And he goes on to say:
Matthew Phillips at door to 53 canynge Rd "I heard commotion, more than one voice, one of group had shrieked, did not sound in distress".

Not too good for a prosecution witness ... is this the doubt about the scream that the defence introduced on Tuesday?

 

[Cherwell]

Doesn't that sound as if she were texting after having got home?

Not to me, sounds more like she's talking about the shops. Ville as in town centre, perhaps. But she was obviously in the habit of using quirky expressions, eg "where art thou" so who knows.