GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[stmarysmead]

Here's what doesn't work for me: there are two "Jo's" described here by Tabak.

There is the confident, over-friendly woman who sought him out through the window...waved him to come to the door...and hardly knowing this man, invited him in for a drink. Now that's a woman who feels in control of the situation.

THAT "Jo" would be amused at a a clumsy pass...would smile and tell him "sorry." Her reaction would not be a terrified scream. A scream that so engulfed her that she could not stop it when he removed his hand.

The other Jo is the one very uncomfortable with staying alone. She sought out FRIENDS...she didn't engage the priest on the street in conversation looking for anyone's company. That Jo would never nod to a near stranger once safely inside...never let him further into the "aloneness" of her home. And ONLY that Jo would be so uncomfortable, so nervous at this stranger that "an arm around her waist" elected a scream so anchored to her fear and terror...that she cOULD NOT stop it.

Tabak can't have it both ways. His story is a lie.

 

[veggiefan]

Alternatively, did Joanna arrive home and not double-lock the door but merely close it, put the keys in the rucksack and subsequently open it without the keys when, allegedly she let VT in?

I think that's more than likely. Despite what GR said, I've never known anyone with two locks on their door lock both of them until they go to bed or both leave the premises.

It's just too annoying to have to undo a deadlock as well as a Yale lock if the cat wants to pop out (and then come back in again), or if there's rubbish to put in the bin, or whatever.

 

[veggiefan]

Nothing he has said so far appears to be the truth. I see a perjury case looming

Erm ... perjury is the deliberate giving of false or misleading testimony under oath.

VT has not yet given any testimony, so there is no chance of charging him with perjury.

(I presume you didn't mean that his barrister might be done for perjury!)

 

[bijoux]

He declined the drink.

Ah, thank you. I missed that point.
He attempts to cheat on his girl friend, strangles JY, but is worried about having one drink because he's headed to ASDA by car?

*skewed thinking*

 

[Cherwell]

Can anybody tell me why fuller versions of trial proceedings aren't available/allowed whilst a trial is in progress? Are Tweets checked by the court to ensure that journalists aren't contacting witnesses who have still to give evidence?

The tweets are checked (one of the journos mentioned this), but I don't know the answer to the transcript question.

 

[veggiefan]

I find it totally implausable.

If someone made a pass at me after I'd invited them in for a Christmas 'hello' and they then put their arm around me and leant in to kiss me I would either fly up from the sofa or turn away and uncomfortably say 'no thanks!'

I wouldn't scream... unless I already had some fear of that person, and in that case I wouldn't invite them in!

I'm perplexed by the screaming business. Teenage girls (of whom JY was obviously not one) seem to scream at anything these days. In one sense it was ever thus (think of the Beatles), but now they seem to do it every few seconds while waiting for the school bus. We had a very sad incident in our village where a girl ran into the road without looking and didn't hear the screams of "mind the lorry" because they merged into the general background of screams about how awful the PE teacher is, or how bad Tom Bloggs' new haircut is, or whatever else they scream about.

I would have expected JY to react exactly as you say - and if that was not enough, to give VT a good slap across the face.

If one is being deprived of oxygen through strangulation, I would have thought that the last type of "survival" response would be to waste more oxygen through screaming. Surely the natural response would be to flail out with whatever one had - if fingernails were not available to scratch his eyes out, then fists aimed at the nose would be the survival response. If he was holding the hands, then a good knee up the groin would be obvious.

I don't really see JY as one of this generation that screams at anything, and I do wonder if she saw something more than an unwarranted kiss - a knife? a body part that we'd rather not think about?

There are still many unanswered questions in this case.

 

[Sammyme]

I think that's more than likely. Despite what GR said, I've never known anyone with two locks on their door lock both of them until they go to bed or both leave the premises. It's just too annoying to have to undo a deadlock as well as a Yale lock if the cat wants to pop out (and then come back in again), or if there's rubbish to put in the bin, or whatever.

That's true - and I don't even have a cat! I like to be able to open the door easily when I want. And I don't like a locked-in feeling except last thing at night.

 

[Clio]

My contention is this:

why would she then put her keys in her rucksack while VT was in for his " drink & a chat", knowing that she would double-lock the door when VT left for the night. seems odd - which is why I think VT handled her keys.

Ah I see. Personally, I always drop my keys back in my bag when I get in the house so it didn't seem odd to me

 

[Luna15]

I think that's more than likely. Despite what GR said, I've never known anyone with two locks on their door lock both of them until they go to bed or both leave the premises.

It's just too annoying to have to undo a deadlock as well as a Yale lock if the cat wants to pop out (and then come back in again), or if there's rubbish to put in the bin, or whatever.

he is claiming to have left the door on the latch whilst he went back to his flat - I used to have a lock with a latch and I could use the latch bit to lock myself in from the inside as well so I guess she could have done that with the intention of double locking it when she went to bed.

 

[bijoux]

If he went in for a drink wouldn't you assume they sat down?

Were they seated side by side when he put his arm around the small of her back?

But then how did they get to the hallway from the lounge?

Did she run away from him screaming and he chased after her.

Or were they standing in the hallway for 10 minutes?

*this is like a jigsaw puzzle with essential pieces missing*

 

[veggiefan]

Can anybody tell me why fuller versions of trial proceedings aren't available/allowed whilst a trial is in progress?

When transcripts are made of court cases (and they are often not) they are made either by making an audio tape recording or by taking shorthand notes - either of which need much time to transcribe.

Real-time stenography is very rarely used, as the cost is prohibitive (not only do stenographers attract huge salaries, but the job is so intensive that they can only work for short periods, so you need a large team to cover even a short court session).

There are also issues such as the potential for contravening the data protection act that have to be examined "behind the scenes" before court data can be released.

Allowing journalists to tweet from the courtroom is new and unusual - but all of us have noticed how easily they can confuse the issues rather than elucidate, so I'm not sure that it's a practice that will continue.

 

[veggiefan]

I don't like a locked-in feeling except last thing at night.

You'd not even like it at night if you found smoke filling your house and couldn't find the key for the deadlock in order to escape.

(Sorry!)

 

[stmarysmead]

I think Tabak's computer searches give us a great deal of insight into the crime. He looked up "sexual assault" and he looked up the effects of "alcohol consumption."

I believe he was drunk and bored and...that led to the attempt at "sexual assault" and to her murder.

If there was no sexual assault or attempt...why would he even research it? He wasn't looking up "arson" and "armed robbery" or other non-related crimes?

 

[bos]

When transcripts are made of court cases (and they are often not) they are made either by making an audio tape recording or by taking shorthand notes - either of which need much time to transcribe.

Real-time stenography is very rarely used, as the cost is prohibitive (not only do stenographers attract huge salaries, but the job is so intensive that they can only work for short periods, so you need a large team to cover even a short court session).

There are also issues such as the potential for contravening the data protection act that have to be examined "behind the scenes" before court data can be released.

Allowing journalists to tweet from the courtroom is new and unusual - but all of us have noticed how easily they can confuse the issues rather than elucidate, so I'm not sure that it's a practice that will continue.

Can you give me an example of a possible contravention of the data protection act?

I know court stenography is labour/cash intensive; & agree that Tweets can be ambiguous at times; I just get the feeling that perhaps things are being "censored" (or maybe I'm trying to find reasons for why there seems to have been so little presented that wasn't already in the public domain)!

 

[aneurin]

Evenin' all!

Can anybody tell me why fuller versions of trial proceedings aren't available/allowed whilst a trial is in progress? Are Tweets checked by the court to ensure that journalists aren't contacting witnesses who have still to give evidence?

I think those of us who have followed this case from the beginning, not to mention JY's family & friends, are still going to have unanswered questions at the end of the trial but I feel that a lot of testimony isn't being widely reported.

Explanations welcome!

As far as Twitter is concerned:-

Lord Justice Judge's ruling said: "The use of an unobtrusive, hand-held, virtually silent piece of modern equipment for the purposes of simultaneous reporting of proceedings to the outside world as they unfold in court is unlikely to interfere with the proper administration of justice."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12038088

As far as fuller versions of trial proceedings are concerned. At one time newspapers used to publish detailed accounts of notable criminal trials in progress. I've read through accounts in the Times of the John Bodkin Adams trial (for example) from 1957 and they appear to be virtually a transcript of the proceedings. Presumably that sort of thing doesn't sell newspapers anymore. A headline and a few juicy bits appears to sufice these days.

 

[wfgodot]

*this is like a jigsaw puzzle with essential pieces missing*

snip

The defense's case is like a jigsaw puzzle with a different picture on the box than the one we can assemble from the pieces inside.

 

[Sammyme]

You'd not even like it at night if you found smoke filling your house and couldn't find the key for the deadlock in order to escape.

(Sorry!)

That's why the upstairs windows are never locked at night in this house. What would you do if you forgot where you had put the key down?

 

[kINGFISHER]

he declined the drink as he was driving, supposedly. Personally i would've thought it a bit strange to stay without having a drink... It sort of breaks the ice with people you don't know if you have at least *something* - soft drink, water? But of course, he thought he was on a promise, didn't he?! :waitasec:

then he went and bought a beer in asda

 

[whiterum]

'Vincent left his flat and he was walking towards his car, intending to drive to Asda, when he passed Joanna’s kitchen window.

'Her blind was up - it always was. It was broken, her boyfriend confirmed. The light in the kitchen was on. Joanna was in there. She looked up and saw Vincent, her neighbour. He noticed her.

'There was a nod and acknowledgment between the two and she indicated or beckoned for him to retrace his steps and to come in. Joanna opened her front door and invited him in.He took off his coat and hung it on the coat rack that was in her hall.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eates-chance-invited-drink.html#ixzz1bFWKxOLu

I just do not buy that.

Me neither, the prosecution's statement was she was just settling in for the night and was interrupted. VT says the opposite he was on his way to Asda and Jo beckoned him in.

As some posters have said, as evidence unfolds it is getting more and more likely that he was already in her flat. One reporter said instead of 'interrupted 'that he 'pounced ' must have been their interpretation of what was meant.

That would explain eveything, the suddenness of the attack, the screams and the need to silence her for good. As Firefly posted she could have been running to the door and managed to just get out when she was dragged back in and killed in the hallway.

I really hope the prosecution make the truth clear tomorrow.

The beautiful Jo beckoned him in, my *advertiser censored*!!

 

[kINGFISHER]

Hope he did not drink that beer before he picked up tm after midnight.