Thank you, aneurin.
GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15
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Thank you, aneurin.
Isn't the point though, that it doesn't seem to have been proven in court that VT knew GR was away. The prosecution suggested to VT that CJ told him about GR and the car but, surprise surprise, VT "can't remember"
If CJ were to testify that he had told VT about GR going away for the weekend then it would be known to the jury and they could draw their own conclusions as to his intentions
This, combined with the attempts to shift at least part of the blame on her, makes me dislike him and question everything he says. He only seems to remember things that don't make him look "too bad" (if this is at all possible) and that allow the possibility of it being an accident and thus not his fault.
It doesn't sound like they had any disagreement. They walked to work together in the morning, they had lunch together, he even described having a bit of a kiss and a cuddle at work at around 5:00pm before he left to go back to the flat.
Luna15
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this confuses me a great deal too - I am not clear what part of the body the blood originated from? It was enough to seep through the bicycle bag and into the boot of his car.
On the subject of the cat somehow initiating the whole incident.... could it have got into VT's flat and as he went to remove it, Bernard scratched him - and that was the cause of the injury he had on is arm
The nurse found a 6x1 cm scar with scab on his left arm and a bruised toe nail.
by skynewsgatherer via twitter
Tabak was probed about minor arm injuries he was found to have when he was arrested. He said he could not remember how he had got the injuries.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/o...ies-sexual-motive-joanna-yeates?newsfeed=true
we all know when he cant remember - he can but he doesn't want to say - surely if JY had caused that, some of his DNA would have been found under her fingernails.
Perhaps he got them during the struggle when the coat rack was knocked over, or they fell and maybe hit something? - Sorry, I forgot there was no struggle whatsoever and she didn't resist at all.
Personally, I agree with what you said about "when he can't remember".
The only mention of bleeding I have heard of is as a result of her fractured nose.
From Steven Morris
In initial report pathologist Nat Cary said it was a possibility Joanna Yeates face had been pressed into "soft furnishing" - like a chair
But now Cary thinks injuries to nose may have been caused by blow, hand over face or collapse to ground - Tabak trial
I guess her nose might have been broken when he dropped her/put her down on the way to his flat. Would that cause enough blood to stain her top, get in her hair and most puzzlingly on the sole and toe of her sock? If that's what happened there may not have been any blood in the flat and it would explain why he really needed that rock salt!
As for the wound on VT's arm - that doesn't sound like a cat scratch to me. I have cats and have been scratched and even bitten on the arm and you don't get a 6x1cm scar
I would have also thought that if she had wounded him, some DNA would have been under her nails but they did make a point that her nails were very short. Or mabye she picked an object up and swiped at him with that.
Curious Alice
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I wonder of the corner edge of a Pizza box might be sharp enough to cause a graze like that ?
Or maybe it had fingerprints or DNA, not necessarily blood.
Not sure where all the blood came from. Or how it got in her hair. Head injury? Blood from her nose? Blood from an injury on his arm?
Peter Stanley, the next-door neighbour who helped CJ start GR's car, was reported as saying that "he did not think former public school teacher Jefferies, 65, spoke to Greg about going away for the weekend".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ce-over-boyfriends-flat-battery-incident.html
I'd say that at least some of it was the result of the body being frozen after death. People are mostly water. Water expands when it freezes, and that would burst many small capilliaries. However, it is clear from the blood found in VT's boot that it probably didn't all occur because of freezing.
However the article contains two statements difficult to reconcile :
1.
2.
It seems to have been established beyond dispute that Peter Stanley provided the jump leads, but that Greg had initially approached CJ, not Stanley. Stanley may mean simply that Greg could have asked for help starting without saying he was going to be away for the whole weekend. But as a matter of fact if you ask your landlord for help starting your car on a cold winter's evening you probably would mention some circumstance to show that your journey was necessary.
Stanley didn't "think" Greg had mentioned his intended absence to CJ, but as Greg spoke to CJ before Stanley was involved, Stanley can only conjecture. The other neighbour states the contrary fact much more positively.
True, but then anonymous quotes cannot always be trusted (as CJ discovered).
Quite so Clio; I was just answering on the point of fact as to whether VT had in fact been told of Greg's absence. The jury have no usable knowledge of that fact (if it is one). It has been mentioned to them as a possibility and they can use it as such, but no more.
I would add that even if VT did have advance knowledge of Greg's absence, he could hardly have known in advance that the gregarious Joanna was not expecting company later in the evening or at the latest the following day. I don't believe this crime was planned in advance.
Eponymous ones cannot always be trusted either.
Edit : Come to think of it I don't think "eponymous" is the right word, but I trust my meaning is clear nonetheless.
He practised as an architect designing the layout of corporate buildings and other public use facilities, but he didn't design houses. I find the similarity of profession relevant as it opens the possibility that VT had interactions with Joanna prior to the murder. It makes the murder less random and less accidental.
She was wearing thick socks, so I think it's possible that if she were looking for the cat, she could have stepped onto the path wearing just her socks. As for the reason that one sock is missing, it's hard to say. One sock had blood on the sole. Perhaps the other did too and two bloody socks meant that she tried to walk away after she was bleeding ... or maybe there was no blood on the sole of the sock and he used it to clean up.
Thanks for the step info. Early on we were debating whether there were some steps from the door to the hall. Could he have injured her wrists by dragging her into her bedroom, or possibly dragging her on the path after he found it slippery?
People flow is a field of architecture, formerly referred to as programming. It includes the study of ergonomics. Architects completing phds will specialize in a particular area, but they are still architects first and specialists second. My comment related to why VT, an architect, couldn't find something interesting to photograph in the fresh snow ... making the assumption that architects view buildings are art, and snowy buildings as more artistic than otherwise.
Just read your reply Cherwell. I am afraid I am out of my depth here. I can't figure out what this means. I will stay with it and try to work out what you mean.
It's terrible getting old.
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