GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[veggiefan]

I am messy but can't see that knickers would be lying about in my hallway.

The weather was cold and damp. There is a large radiator in the hall. I could easily believe that underwear might be left to dry on it, especially if visitors were not expected. Our smalls are often left to dry on radiators.

 

[Luna15]

That's one thing that strikes me about him: sheer brass neck. He has shown that quality throughout, even questioning the police about forensics and accusing them or the laboratory of corruption or contamination! Then there is his brass neck in standing up and telling a load of blatant lies such as that Joanna showed sexual interest in him, that there was no struggle, that he was only trying to calm someone he strangled to death and that he can't remember any of the facts and events that just might put him in jeopardy. There is no recompense, nothing that can help, nothing that can fix any of it, give Joanna her life back or mend the lives of her parents, brother and Greg but he could at least have told them truth if he had any remorse and any decency in him.

this is the point I really changed my mind about him - having the gall to apologise for the “week of hell” he put her Mum, Dad and Greg through not knowing where she was, then being prepared to place them in a further “hell” for a 3/4 week trial period whilst he continued to make an equally clumsy job of ‘covering his tracks’. Do any of us dare to imagine what “hell” her parents and Greg are truly going through? those images will probably haunt them for the rest of their lives... he treated their precious daughters body in the most repugnant of ways during and after death, now he is prepared to tarnish her “flirty” reputation in an equally abhorrent way with them sitting within yards of him ..... “brass neck”?? I can’t make up my mind whether he is ‘mad’ or ‘bad’, but I do know that he utterly disgusts me.

A few pages back somebody said it would be particularly cruel to deprive VT’s 70 year old mother the chance of visiting him if he is kept in the UK to serve his time; I bet Joanna’s parents would walk to the end of the earth to see their daughter again – his mother will just have to face the consequences of her son’s crime in the same way that Mr & Mrs Yeates have.

 

[Curious Alice]

The weather was cold and damp. There is a large radiator in the hall. I could easily believe that underwear might be left to dry on it, especially if visitors were not expected. Our smalls are often left to dry on radiators.

Personally I'd do that in the bedroom or bathroom if I didn't have a tumble dryer, but yes, a plausible option. Still wouldn't invite anyone unknown to me in the property with knickers lying around though :blushing:

 

[Curious Alice]

this is the point I really changed my mind about him - having the gall to apologise for the “week of hell” he put her Mum, Dad and Greg through not knowing where she was, then being prepared to place them in a further “hell” for a 3/4 week trial period whilst he continued to make an equally clumsy job of ‘covering his tracks’. Do any of us dare to imagine what “hell” her parents and Greg are truly going through? those images will probably haunt them for the rest of their lives... he treated their precious daughters body in the most repugnant of ways during and after death, now he is prepared to tarnish her “flirty” reputation in an equally abhorrent way with them sitting within yards of him ..... “brass neck”?? I can’t make up my mind whether he is ‘mad’ or ‘bad’, but I do know that he utterly disgusts me.

A few pages back somebody said it would be particularly cruel to deprive VT’s 70 year old mother the chance of visiting him if he is kept in the UK to serve his time; I bet Joanna’s parents would walk to the end of the earth to see their daughter again – his mother will just have to face the consequences of her son’s crime in the same way that Mr & Mrs Yeates have.

With you on all points there, but as for mad/bad in order to commit such a crime ?.....I think a person can be maladjusted, socially inept and just down right weird and have the capacity to be a loose canon.

 

[Firefly75]

A few pages back somebody said it would be particularly cruel to deprive VT’s 70 year old mother the chance of visiting him if he is kept in the UK to serve his time; I bet Joanna’s parents would walk to the end of the earth to see their daughter again [...]

Do you think they'll keep him in the UK? I don't think so. Not only because of his family, but perhaps also for his own safety. This case has caused a lot of upset, and given the circumstances and the BS he's been telling at the trial, the inmates may be less than friendly if he stays.

JY's family would not only walk barefoot to the end of the world to see her again, they'd gladly give their lives to have her alive, or at least to have spared her the ordeal, I'm sure. "A week of hell" that he admits to - the man has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[FiestyFairy]

I think the average person who had killed someone accidentally would want an opportunity to explain, convince, apologise. The dunno's are simply so he doesn't dig himself into a deeper hole. I would instinctively distrust a person who refused to take the stand to offer some kind of explanation.

And do you trust VT more since he has been on the witness stand? I, do not

 

[FiestyFairy]

GR and JY left for work at the same time on the day she died. GR would have known the condition (tidiness) of the flat when he left that night
His evidence states it was a mess with clothes strewn around and he tried to figure out what had happened by looking at the clothes as he tidied up. He drew a plan of the scattered clothing and it was shown to the jury. This doesn't sound like just the odd pair of undies but more clothes.
The earring, one found under the duvet and one on the floor under clothes

What exactly did VT do during that missing half hour?

 

[Curious Alice]

And do you trust VT more since he has been on the witness stand? I, do not

Absolutely not. I do not believe much of his account at all, but I think he hoped to be able to offer a believable and convincing story. He knows he is going to prison for killing her, but he wants to save his skin and get a manslaughter verdict & a lesser sentence. It's all he's got left to play for isn't it ? Maybe he has convinced himself that it was an accident.

My point is that people who do not take the stand in these circumstances are offering no explanation at all. If person has admitted killing someone, we would surely expect an account of how it happened in public court ? To refuse would indicate there was something else to hide.

 

[Sammyme]

Personally I'd do that in the bedroom or bathroom if I didn't have a tumble dryer, but yes, a plausible option. Still wouldn't invite anyone unknown to me in the property with knickers lying around though :blushing:

That's what I'd do as well, especially with one small item of underwear. If there had been a few items of clothes, maybe yes, I'd think they were drying on the hall radiator but just the one item of underwear made it seem odd. But who knows?

 

[Sammyme]

GR and JY left for work at the same time on the day she died. GR would have known the condition (tidiness) of the flat when he left that night
His evidence states it was a mess with clothes strewn around and he tried to figure out what had happened by looking at the clothes as he tidied up. He drew a plan of the scattered clothing and it was shown to the jury. This doesn't sound like just the odd pair of undies but more clothes.
The earring, one found under the duvet and one on the floor under clothes

What exactly did VT do during that missing half hour?

Yes, he knows what state it was in when he left but I have not heard what state that was. I understand he said it was a mess when he returned on the Sunday night.

 

[kINGFISHER]

the steven lawrence murder? A classic one.

could this also be classed as perjury if that is him walking around waitrose with his camera. When he states on oath that he is home at that time.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Come on all you sleuths! has anyone got a comment?

 

[edgedweller]

Are there any women on this forum that would invite a stranger, albeit one she MIGHT recognise, into their home whilst they were alone, at night ? I know I would not.

Probably not. Even my next neighbour who I know quite well to chat to on the street, and I'm virtually SURE is no threat to me - I probably wouldn't invite him in if I was alone (although I'm never alone as I have children! - but even if they were asleep upstairs) once it was dark. During the day, I probably would, but at night everyone/everything seems a little more threatening and most women would take fewer risks.

Someone I'd only nodded to, that I barely knew, knowing they lived in the flat next door with their serious girlfriend? Unlikely, unless there was a reason to - like they were returning my cat, or delivering a wrongly addressed piece of post, etc. I would still try to keep them at the door unless they were ill or locked out and needed to use my phone or something. I think most women are quite wary of strangers these days, especially on long winter nights. Doesn't mean that Jo DIDN'T invite him in, people do uncharacteristic or silly things sometimes. Usually it has no ill effects. Personally I don't know what to think. When I read the tweets about VT's testimony, I found myself feeling quite sorry for him (!), as his descriptions of panic really rang true. But I simply don't believe that she did not try to fight him off or struggle, and I also don't believe that he didn't realise she was struggling for breath (and turning red, surely?!). So in that case I call it murder. I don't think it was premeditated, I think he has few social skills with women and maybe did misread signals and panicked that TM would dump him if she found out he'd been trying it on with the neighbour.

 

[Robin Hood]

OK, I've gone through Rupert Evelyn's tweets, Steven Morris and Harriet Tolputt but can't find where I read that GR said the green pedastol was chipped and Jo's knickers were on top and that he FOUND IT STRANGE her knickers were THERE. I definately read it, if another poster can maybe check another tweeter to find it, I would be grateful.
The date GR gave evidence is the 17th Oct. Thanks.
Sorry if this has been covered, I'm a little behind on the posts.

 

[Robin Hood]

Sorry Kingfisher, I don't know. All I know is that the footage was removed from Avon and Somerset constab site and that all I can find now is The Telegraph's CCTV, where the bloke has been cut down, not showing his head and re-action.

 

[veggiefan]

could this also be classed as perjury if that is him walking around waitrose with his camera. When he states on oath that he is home at that time.

I don't think there is the slightest chance of proving that the man in that poor quality CCTV was VT. If there was, the prosecution would have introduced the very persuasive element of stalking into their case - but they haven't.

 

[aneurin]

OK, I've gone through Rupert Evelyn's tweets, Steven Morris and Harriet Tolputt but can't find where I read that GR said the green pedastol was chipped and Jo's knickers were on top and that he FOUND IT STRANGE her knickers were THERE. I definately read it, if another poster can maybe check another tweeter to find it, I would be grateful.
The date GR gave evidence is the 17th Oct. Thanks.
Sorry if this has been covered, I'm a little behind on the posts.

Not tweeted but in the papers:-

Greg, who also felt a "buzzing level of stress", said at one point he noticed a green plastic pedestal had been chipped and two fragments about two and three inches long were lying on top together with a pair of Jo's briefs. Greg said they would not normally have been left there.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...oat-for-20-seconds-to-stop-her-screaming.html

 

[Clio]

OK, I've gone through Rupert Evelyn's tweets, Steven Morris and Harriet Tolputt but can't find where I read that GR said the green pedastol was chipped and Jo's knickers were on top and that he FOUND IT STRANGE her knickers were THERE. I definately read it, if another poster can maybe check another tweeter to find it, I would be grateful.
The date GR gave evidence is the 17th Oct. Thanks.
Sorry if this has been covered, I'm a little behind on the posts.

I don't think it was mentioned in the tweets. The only place I saw it mentioned was http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Yeates-20-seconds-stifle-scream-arm-her.html

'There was clothing, boots, shoes and general paraphernalia in the main walking path of the hallway.
'There were several coats on the floor. One of my brown coats and two or three big items of clothing.'
.....
Mr Reardon noticed two broken pieces of plastic on a green pedestal in the hallway, with a pair of Jo's briefs on top.
He told the court that this was not the normal place they would be kept. The bin had not had any extra rubbish put into it since he left on December 17 and he spotted Jo's work bag on the dining room table. In it, he found her keys and wallet.

 

[Robin Hood]

Thanks Aneurin and Clio.

 

[edgedweller]

Perhaps he didn't intend to strangle her before he knocked, but I think he intended to do something else, make a pass at her, as he put it, whatever exactly that meant to him. It was either getting what he wanted (rape?) or killing her after she'd opened the door.

I don't believe he went there to rape her - surely if he 'only' raped her, and went back to his flat, she would just call the police and with DNA evidence he would be caught and lose everything. Can't see what the point is of raping someone who knows exactly who you are unless you are certain they will never tell anyone (or you kill them afterwards to silence them). He didn't know her well enough to know that. I think the pass gone wrong could be half the truth, but he was more aggressive than he admits to, and the screams heard would be from his aggression. I don't believe someone of JY's generation would scream at an attempted kiss. One of the phrases he used a lot in his testimony was "I can't believe I did that" - he says it of leaving her body by the side of the road. But maybe there are echoes of him meaning it about something else he did that night - grabbing her roughly, forcing himself on her, pulling up her top? "I can't believe I did that"....