GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[Clio]

Re: leaving JY in the flat after killing her, (GR said when he returned the flat was on the snib only). Does that mean VT left the front door open, or took JY's key to regain access to the flat. If he left the door open it might easily have blown shut. VT would have to take the key with him once he had taken JY body from the flat, dumped it in his flat, then returned & tidied/staged the scenes in JY's flat.

On leaving for the final time he would have to be happy with how everything looked, then put the key in JY's rucksack and close the front door using the handle (possibly using the sock to hide fingerprints.)

I was wondering about this too.

Tabak left Joanna's dead body in her flat. He then returned to move her. He turned off her oven and took the pizza she had bought.

So either he panicked and ran back to his flat leaving her flat door open. In which case he just got lucky that it hadn't blown shut once he decided to return to collect the body.

Or he knew he would need to be able to get back in. In which case, he either left the door on the latch and just pulled it shut or he rummaged around to find her keys or he already had a key to Flat 1

 

[konformation]

The prosecution have made the point (through GR) that they always double locked the door whether they were in or out of the flat - you might have a point; as why would JY put her keys in her rucksack after double locking the door? (presuming she did) surely they would be hanging in the lock on the inside of the door?

I do have a point indeed! JY wasn't the last person to leave the flat - it was VT! Either he had his own key to their flat, or did something similar to described above.

GR testified that he couldn't remember if the door was double locked when he returned on Sunday, but thinks it was only on the snib.

either way, for me VT is not believable in his testimony...

 

[FiestyFairy]

Nothing he has said so far appears to be the truth. I see a perjury case looming

 

[masekwm]

I'm convinced that never happened. If I'm walking past someone's window at night, I don't look into their window at them. Likewise, if I'm indoors at night and someone is walking past, I don't make eye contact. This is not a plausible scenario. Yes, it could happen if they had met before (and VT said they hadn't), but otherwise not.

Consider you are walking down the alley, the outisde light is on and just as you get to the window the kitchen light flicks on.

You may turn to look at the window and find someone looking back at you.

This isn't a large kitchen so a person standing with the light on will be easily seen.

 

[Luna15]

haven't seen this one before:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/vincent-tabaks-internet-use-analysed-2372832.html

Other internet searches included articles about the extradition of people from the Netherlands and the "short-term affects of alcohol".

 

[veggiefan]

why would JY put her keys in her rucksack after double locking the door? (presuming she did) surely they would be hanging in the lock on the inside of the door?

She may have been aware that that is a very poor place to keep keys - a burglar can easily fish them through the letterbox with a wire coat hanger.

 

[wfgodot]

Consider you are walking down the alley, the outisde light is on and just as you get to the window the kitchen light flicks on.

You may turn to look at the window and find someone looking back at you.

This isn't a large kitchen so a person standing with the light on will be easily seen.

Good point, but my natural inclination there would be a quick glance and walk on. And that of the lightswitch-flicker would not be to hold a glance.

The "found him inside her apartment when she got home" scenario gets my vote. His bid to frame CY opened up all sorts of character possibilities.

As did his murdering Joanna, of course!

 

[veggiefan]

He says he walked past the kitchen window and they smiled at each other; he would have been walking away from her front door, it would only have been a split second as he passed, so did he stop dead in his tracks when she smiled at him then?

On the BBC Radio 4 news bulletin, half an hour ago, they implied that JY initially chatted with him through the window.

I haven't seen that reported elsewhere, but it might explain why we noticed a microphone close to the kitchen window in the photos of the jury visit to JY's flat if they were testing to see how well a voice could be heard through the glass.

 

[bees]

The implication I got was that she beckoned him through the window to go to the door, which she might have done. I could imagine her doing that in order to invite him and his girlfriend in for a drink over the weekend or even invite them both to the party they were having later in the week.

 

[Clio]

I'd like to know if he looked up sexual conduct/sexual assault before or after the police mentioned on the news that the motive for her abduction and/or attack could be sexual.

Afterwards it seems

On January 11 he was said to have Googled "definition sexual conduct" and then "definition of sexual assault".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/vincent-tabaks-internet-use-analysed-2372832.html


From the Guardian on 3rd January

Police investigating the murder of landscape architect Jo Yeates have said there is no evidence that the 25-year-old was sexually assaulted – but said they have not ruled out a 'sexual motive'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/03/joanna-yeates-murder-police-fresh-appeal

 

[konformation]

She may have been aware that that is a very poor place to keep keys - a burglar can easily fish them through the letterbox with a wire coat hanger.

yes, but even if JY had double-locked them - she was still killed in the flat!

in any scenario VT had to leave the flat with JY's body, closing the door behind him. JY's keys were in her rucksack!

 

[Clio]

yes, but even if JY had double-locked them - she was still killed in the flat!

in any scenario VT had to leave the flat with JY's body, closing the door behind him. JY's keys were in her rucksack!

Yes but he could have put the door on the latch and just pulled it to, gone round to his flat to get the cycle cover and come back to Flat 1 to collect the body pushing the door open without the need for any keys.

A bit risky I agree but possible

He then takes the door off the latch and pulls it shut for the final time after she is in the car boot. No need for any keys

 

[Luna15]

Yes but he could have put the door on the latch and just pulled it to, gone round to his flat to get the cycle cover and come back to Flat 1 to collect the body pushing the door open without the need for any keys.

A bit risky I agree but possible

He then takes the door off the latch and pulls it shut for the final time after she is in the car boot. No need for any keys

that is exactly what Sky evening news have just reported that he did.

 

[Luna15]

'Vincent left his flat and he was walking towards his car, intending to drive to Asda, when he passed Joanna’s kitchen window.

'Her blind was up - it always was. It was broken, her boyfriend confirmed. The light in the kitchen was on. Joanna was in there. She looked up and saw Vincent, her neighbour. He noticed her.

'There was a nod and acknowledgment between the two and she indicated or beckoned for him to retrace his steps and to come in. Joanna opened her front door and invited him in.He took off his coat and hung it on the coat rack that was in her hall.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eates-chance-invited-drink.html#ixzz1bFWKxOLu

I just do not buy that.

 

[konformation]

Yes but he could have put the door on the latch and just pulled it to, gone round to his flat to get the cycle cover and come back to Flat 1 to collect the body pushing the door open without the need for any keys.

A bit risky I agree but possible

He then takes the door off the latch and pulls it shut for the final time after she is in the car boot. No need for any keys

I bowed to your snib-rationale when you first mentioned it.

I was answering the point someone raised about JY double-locking the door concerning how VT gained access to the flat : - either by invitation - (JY would unlock both locks for this).

My contention is this:

why would she then put her keys in her rucksack while VT was in for his " drink & a chat", knowing that she would double-lock the door when VT left for the night. seems odd - which is why I think VT handled her keys.

 

[bijoux]

Was in classes till now but just read RE's tweets. I feel VT's defense is surprisingly skimpy, don't you think? I guess WC thought better of weaving a tangled web and decided to go for a simple scenario and good old fashioned straight up manslaughter, as aneurin stated here a couple of days ago.

Some true facts and others omitted.


If VT was indeed invited in for a drink and stayed 10 minutes, surely that would have been enough time for JY to pour one and there would've been evidence of such?

That VT was so ready and willing to cheat on TM says a lot about his character. *advertiser censored*.

Also I think WC's remark about JY still being alive if she'd stayed for one more drink at the pub was out of line.

Now I'm going to read what y'all have had to say!

 

[edgedweller]

If VT was indeed invited in for a drink and stayed 10 minutes, surely that would have been enough time for JY to pour one and there would've been evidence of such?

He declined the drink as he was driving, supposedly. Personally I would've thought it a bit strange to stay without having a drink... it sort of breaks the ice with people you don't know if you have at least *something* - soft drink, water? But of course, he thought he was on a promise, didn't he?! :waitasec:

 

[Luna15]

I bowed to your snib-rationale when you first mentioned it.

I was answering the point someone raised about JY double-locking the door concerning how VT gained access to the flat : - either by invitation - (JY would unlock both locks for this).

My contention is this:

why would she then put her keys in her rucksack while VT was in for his " drink & a chat", knowing that she would double-lock the door when VT left for the night . seems odd - which is why I think VT handled her keys.

you really do have a key point there konformation!!

 

[bos]

Evenin' all!

Can anybody tell me why fuller versions of trial proceedings aren't available/allowed whilst a trial is in progress? Are Tweets checked by the court to ensure that journalists aren't contacting witnesses who have still to give evidence?

I think those of us who have followed this case from the beginning, not to mention JY's family & friends, are still going to have unanswered questions at the end of the trial but I feel that a lot of testimony isn't being widely reported.

Explanations welcome!

 

[Sammyme]

I do have a point indeed! JY wasn't the last person to leave the flat - it was VT! Either he had his own key to their flat, or did something similar to described above.

GR testified that he couldn't remember if the door was double locked when he returned on Sunday, but thinks it was only on the snib.

either way, for me VT is not believable in his testimony...

If Joanna double-locked the door when she arrived home and put the keys in her rucksack, that would imply that Joanna and Greg, being security conscious, did not usually leave the keys in the lock in case someone could reach in through the letter box and grab them.

If she then let VT in, she would have had to retrieve the keys from the rucksack and, as she was then killed, they would not have been returned to the rucksack.

Alternatively, did Joanna arrive home and not double-lock the door but merely close it, put the keys in the rucksack and subsequently open it without the keys when, allegedly she let VT in? So the keys would still be in the rucksack. At least until the arrival of VT. After he killed her, would he have looked for them and found them in the rucksack, gone out to his own flat, used them to let himself back into Joanna's and subsequently replaced them in the rucksack and let himself out without them, for the final time?

I don't know the answer to this but the prosecution may know more about how Joanna and Greg normally dealt with the keys. Anyway, it's possible, as others have mentioned, that VT merely used the latch rather than the keys to let himself back in and therefore never touched them.