GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[FiestyFairy]

He is sunk after that pathologist / expert witness

 

[bijoux]

Three points :

1. I think the reference to sexual asphyxia refers to the deliberate attempt to heighten sexual pleasure by deprivation of oxygen. The person being the throttled is the one whose pleasure is (allegedly) increased. No one is claiming or suggesting that that happened here, but it is noted in passing that it is one cause of (accidental) death by strangulation.

Ah, yes I know about sexual asphyxia, but thought WC was inferring that a partner could also get aroused by watching the other in an asphyxial state.
Shows you how much I know about it!

 

[kINGFISHER]

is he? We were wondering about that on here yesterday. Can you point us to any examples?

had looked this up way back and posted on here he was known for being lienient but it seems no one remembered. Have just come back on and will look for that information.

 

[Luna15]

Hello everyone,

I've been following this case since the start when JY disappeared and am now following the trial with the rest of you. I tried to join last week as I had a few theories to expand upon, but I have been stranded in limbo while waiting for my application so it's been a bit frustrating!. Anyway I'm in now so I'll just post what I have been thinking....

When I saw the plans of the flat's layouts, the first thing that drew my attention was that the two bedrooms were adjoined and had a blocked up doorway....I wondered whether this allowed sound to transfer between the two rooms easily....?

I wondered if there had been any issue with to noise problems, because coming from someone who has suffered from neighbour noise in the past, I know how the slightest thing can induce rage, as a neighbour of mine once physically attacked the neighbour between us due to the constant loud music they played....He just flipped and swore he could have killed the guy if he hadn't been pulled away.

But as this hasn't seemed to be the case, I then wondered whether VT had been privy to the (trying to be discreet here)...'nocturnal activity' of JY and GR and from this, had developed some kind of sexual fantasy / obsession about her....?

Be interested to hear anyone's thoughts.

Hi

VT's girlfriend is reported to have told a friend that JY & GR were 'not as loud as their previous neighbours' (I cant find the link right now) so I dont feel that it was a problem. Also GR & JY's bedroom was adjoined to VT's 'spare' bedroom (see plan of flat)

 

[Firefly75]

Tabak denied that there had been a struggle when he attacked Yeates. He told the court: "I was not being aggressive. She was not resisting me."

"That's a lie, Vincent Tabak," Lickley said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/o...ies-sexual-motive-joanna-yeates?newsfeed=true

Throttling someone is obviously not aggressive. What planet is he living on?!?

 

[Curious Alice]

skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey agrees that marks on Joanna's right arm were caused by being gripped.

The man has many hands apparently, one on her back, one over her mouth, one around her neck and now one gripping her arm, and her wrist - yet there was no "tussle" or resistance to being throttled, and the incident was accidental and over in a matter of seconds. The defence pathologist unable to say which injuries occurred postmortem ?

Just does not ring true.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Douglas field is the lenient judge and the one to watch , so yes this is not the same one if it is Richard Field, might be a relation.

Is he? We were wondering about that on here yesterday. Can you point us to any examples?

right again Cherwell.

 

[Sammyme]

Hello everyone,

I've been following this case since the start when JY disappeared and am now following the trial with the rest of you. I tried to join last week as I had a few theories to expand upon, but I have been stranded in limbo while waiting for my application so it's been a bit frustrating!. Anyway I'm in now so I'll just post what I have been thinking....

When I saw the plans of the flat's layouts, the first thing that drew my attention was that the two bedrooms were adjoined and had a blocked up doorway....I wondered whether this allowed sound to transfer between the two rooms easily....?

I wondered if there had been any issue with to noise problems, because coming from someone who has suffered from neighbour noise in the past, I know how the slightest thing can induce rage, as a neighbour of mine once physically attacked the neighbour between us due to the constant loud music they played....He just flipped and swore he could have killed the guy if he hadn't been pulled away.

But as this hasn't seemed to be the case, I then wondered whether VT had been privy to the (trying to be discreet here)...'nocturnal activity' of JY and GR and from this, had developed some kind of sexual fantasy / obsession about her....?

Be interested to hear anyone's thoughts.

The two adjoining bedrooms were Joanna and Greg's only bedroom and VT and TM's second bedroom. Now, I don't know whether VT and TM slept in their second bedroom instead of their master bedroom which was far away from Joanna and Greg's bedroom.

VT was away for most of the time Joanna had lived there. She and Greg moved in on 25 October, VT was away in America from November until 11 December (I read it was for 5 weeks but do not have the precise date he went away in November.)

The woman who spoke to him at a dinner party after Joanna was killed was the mother of a young woman who, I read, had stayed in VT's spare bedroom while he was in America.

I also read that TM had said that Joanna and Greg were quieter than the previous occupants of their flat.

So all in all, there does not seem much if any evidence for a neighbour noise problem as a factor in this case.

 

[Nausicaa]

Ah, yes I know about sexual asphyxia, but thought WC was inferring that a partner could also get aroused by watching the other in an asphyxial state.
Shows you how much I know about it!

Well, there was that Russian (possibly the most successful serial murderer of recent times) who apparently could only attain sexual satisfaction while strangling teenage boys, but it didn't work unless they actually died.

That obviously wasn't VT's case. I think he was a newcomer to sexual violence and once she was dead lost his interest and was genuinely preoccupied by the need to get rid of the body.

 

[Curious Alice]

Well, there was that Russian (possibly the most successful serial murderer of recent times) who apparently could only attain sexual satisfaction while strangling teenage boys, but it didn't work unless they actually died.

That obviously wasn't VT's case. I think he was a newcomer to sexual violence and once she was dead lost his interest and was genuinely preoccupied by the need to get rid of the body.

As one would be, having attacked and killed your next door neighbour !

 

[Nausicaa]

As one would be, having attacked and killed your next door neighbour !

Except, of course, that the fact of removing the body was precisely what convinced quite a few of us from the very start of this investigation that the culprit would turn out to be a close neighbour. Anyone else could just have left it.

 

[2goldfish]

@jonkay01
Dr Carey says Jo's tshirt may have been pushed up during transportation of her body. No evidence of sexual assault.
But Dr Carey says he cannot rule out sexual motive or assault.
Dr Carey: her injuries do not suggest a "sustained attack" on Jo Yeates.
He thinks the attack on Jo would prob have been quite short.

my bold

not to her! to her it probably seemed to last forever, she was so tiny and he was so big, she didnt have a chance...it's sickening.

 

[Curious Alice]

Could someone enlighten me exactly how VT implicated or cast suspicion on the landlord ? I have seen this mentioned in reports and VT apologised in court for this but I don't understand the context of the apology.

 

[Firefly75]

Mr Lickley told Tabak he would have known as a child that holding Miss Yeates’s throat would stop her breathing.

Tabak - wearing the same suit and tie as yesterday - replied: “I didn’t learn that as a child.”

He added: “It was not my intention to harm her. I just wanted to calm her down and stop her from screaming.”

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...es_for_sexual_thrills_vincent_tabak_1_3897403

I cannot believe this. What a nightmare.

 

[Firefly75]

Could someone enlighten me exactly how VT implicated or cast suspicion on the landlord ? I have seen this mentioned in reports and VT apologised in court for this but I don't understand the context of the apology.

The court also heard how Mr Tabak attempted to incriminate landlord Christopher Jefferies in the disappearance of Ms Yeates by telling police Mr Jefferies' car had moved on the night Ms Yeates was killed. Mr Jefferies was released without charge in March.

The court heard that on the night Mr Jefferies was arrested, Mr Tabak's girlfriend, Tanja Morson, called police to offer information. The couple, who were staying with Mr Tabak's family in the Netherlands, had seen reports of Mr Jefferies' arrest on Dutch television, 13 days after Ms Yeates had disappeared.

Detective Constable Karen Thomas told the court that Mr Tabak had reported that Mr Jefferies' car had been moved on the night of 17 December. "Mr Tabak felt that was important information we should know about," she said. Detectives felt the information was so important that they travelled to the Netherlands to get a witness statement. Earlier, the boyfriend of Ms Yeates faced Mr Tabak in court as he described his increasing sense of panic when he realised she was missing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...k-for-20-seconds-as-she-screamed-2372013.html

 

[notsure]

not to her! to her it probably seemed to last forever, she was so tiny and he was so big, she didnt have a chance...it's sickening.

She would have done all the right things: screaming for help and fighting for her life - all to no avail. Absolutely terrifying, and so sudden after arriving home.

 

[konformation]

She would have done all the right things: screaming for help and fighting for her life - all to no avail. Absolutely terrifying, and so sudden after arriving home.

I doubt most of this testimony from VT. I don't think JY would have allowed VT to come into her flat for a drink at all. VT admitted he took her to his flat after she was dead. and then tidied up/staged events in her flat. I'm exhausted considering alternate scenarios (all of which seem more plausible than the reoprted 'truth'), when the only person who knows is continually deceitful, whether a natural-born-killer or not!

damn this senseless death of JY!

 

[Cherwell]

So who do we think the next witness is going to be? Are we in for a big surprise?

 

[graceholl]

Hello everyone,

I've been following this case since the start when JY disappeared and am now following the trial with the rest of you. I tried to join last week as I had a few theories to expand upon, but I have been stranded in limbo while waiting for my application so it's been a bit frustrating!. Anyway I'm in now so I'll just post what I have been thinking....

When I saw the plans of the flat's layouts, the first thing that drew my attention was that the two bedrooms were adjoined and had a blocked up doorway....I wondered whether this allowed sound to transfer between the two rooms easily....?

I wondered if there had been any issue with to noise problems, because coming from someone who has suffered from neighbour noise in the past, I know how the slightest thing can induce rage, as a neighbour of mine once physically attacked the neighbour between us due to the constant loud music they played....He just flipped and swore he could have killed the guy if he hadn't been pulled away.

But as this hasn't seemed to be the case, I then wondered whether VT had been privy to the (trying to be discreet here)...'nocturnal activity' of JY and GR and from this, had developed some kind of sexual fantasy / obsession about her....?

Be interested to hear anyone's thoughts.

Hi ArtistAtLarge I think that's a very interesting point you make about the potential development of some sort of sexual fantasy, I'm beginning to lean more towards this sort of explanation for why VT had it in his head that it was even slightly appropriate to try and kiss JY that night.

 

[bijoux]

Well, there was that Russian (possibly the most successful serial murderer of recent times) who apparently could only attain sexual satisfaction while strangling teenage boys, but it didn't work unless they actually died.

Lovely. Thank you for not providing a link.

That obviously wasn't VT's case. I think he was a newcomer to sexual violence and once she was dead lost his interest and was genuinely preoccupied by the need to get rid of the body.

Well back to my point though, because I just reread the testimony from today.

Earlier this morning NL asked VT:
"Was the holding of her throat sexual in your mind?"
"Definitely not," said VT.

"Were you sexual aroused when holding her throat? "
"Definitely not," said VT.

Then WC asked Dr C.:
"Can asphyxia form part of a sexually motivated event?"
"Yes," said Dr C.

Why did WC ask the question if if was not to refute the possibility of it being a sexually motivated event because there was no concrete evidence to prove it was?

Because otherwise it sounds like an affirmation of the prosecution's question to Tabak, which seems implausible ie why would the defense agree with the prosecution?

Am I explaining myself all right? Finding it tricky to get this point across.