GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #16

[Clio]

How do you accidentally strangle someone, period?

It is possible but usually results from arm lock type holds around the neck. That is not the case here. She had marks on her neck from fingers.

 

[Luna15]

It's pretty clear IMHO what the judge thinks. However, it's human nature to try and rationalise "why" he did it. As I said before, I'm pretty sure the jury are getting hung up about what really happened and trying to find a scenario in which it makes sense that it could have happened. Just like we are doing on this forum.

They are not legal experts and they only heard the judges summary once, hence the question this morning about "intent" I suspect

I agree and take it as a sign that they dont believe his account.

 

[Clio]

Where indeed ? He made no attempt, gave no thought to it. He intended to kill her to shut her up and hopefully protect his reputation and his cosy little life. There was a calculated mind after the event that hints far more at a cold killer and man in control, than someone who has just lost his mind and committed a crazy act in the spur of the moment. To understand the kind of man he is is to understand his intent IMO.

I am somewhat surprised he admitted that he didn't try to resuscitate her.

Is it possible to tell whether any attempts were or were not made at resuscitation from a post mortem I wonder?

 

[Luna15]

I am somewhat surprised he admitted that he didn't try to resuscitate her.

Is it possible to tell whether any attempts were or were not made at resuscitation from a post mortem I wonder?

I guess they could have found some of his saliva around her mouth...... which wouldn't have looked good

 

[Curious Alice]

I guess they could have found some of his saliva around her mouth...... which wouldn't have looked good

Yes, and chest compressions can cause bruising.

 

[masekwm]

The serious harm is a swerve irc,

"I find it passing strange that a person can be convicted of murder if death results from, say, his intentional breaking of another’s arm, an action which, while undoubtedly involving the infliction of ‘really serious harm’ and, as such, calling for severe punishment, would in most cases be unlikely to kill. And yet, for the lesser offence of attempted murder, nothing less than an intent to kill will suffice. But I recognise the force of the contrary view that the outcome of intentionally inflicting serious harm can be so unpredictable that anyone prepared to act so wickedly has little ground for complaint if, where death results, he is convicted and punished as severely as one who intended to kill."


and definition of GBH is

Whosoever shall unlawfully and maliciously wound or inflict any grievous bodily harm upon any other person, either with or without any weapon or instrument, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable . . . to be kept in penal servitude . .


He didn't cause her serious harm, there was no GBH from his actions, slight bruising to her neck.

If I was sat on that Jury, it would be not guilty because the prosecution has not proved to me that he intended to kill her. It was their job to prove guilt not for Tabak to prove innocence.

 

[Clio]

From James Beal (SWNS)

#tabak trial: All options now on the table. Unanimous verdict, majority verdict...hung jury (gulp)...
In the annex room in court, the television camera angles have been changed in preparation for verdict.
Jo's parents are not present at court today, but boyfriend Greg Reardon is.

 

[Nausicaa]

He didn't cause her serious harm, there was no GBH from his actions, slight bruising to her neck.
.

Death is the most serious form of bodily harm yet discovered.

 

[Curious Alice]

He didn't cause her serious harm, there was no GBH from his actions, slight bruising to her neck.

If I was sat on that Jury, it would be not guilty because the prosecution has not proved to me that he intended to kill her. It was their job to prove guilt not for Tabak to prove innocence.

It is intent to kill or at the least cause serious harm - the act of throttling someone for that long is intent IMO, the injuries are not the full picture. It is reasonable to believe that his action would cause death.

 

[FiestyFairy]

The serious harm is a swerve irc,

"I find it passing strange that a person can be convicted of murder if death results from, say, his intentional breaking of another’s arm, an action which, while undoubtedly involving the infliction of ‘really serious harm’ and, as such, calling for severe punishment, would in most cases be unlikely to kill. And yet, for the lesser offence of attempted murder, nothing less than an intent to kill will suffice.
He didn't cause her serious harm, there was no GBH from his actions, slight bruising to her neck.

If I was sat on that Jury, it would be not guilty because the prosecution has not proved to me that he intended to kill her. It was their job to prove guilt not for Tabak to prove innocence.

Cut by me to get it on one page...

You are wrong. Serious harm is a valid argument to a murder verdict and not a swerve, as you call it.

You claim he didn't cause severe harm? Broken nose, multiple cuts and bruises and death! Sounds fairly serious I would say

 

[kINGFISHER]

Which all due respect, if the prosecution had any evidence that could suggest that I am sure that they would have used it. It would have definitely helped their case against him.

A maybe is not enough in a court of law, they would have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think that the prosecution have stuck to what they can prove. If the CCTV footage is very poor or unclear they will be so much less inclined to introduce it. I would have thought if he had followed her then the chances are that he would have been picked up on several cameras. This does not seem to have happened.

I am not saying that you are wrong, just that I can see why the Prosecution have not brought that in to evidence.

As people have said in the past: "its not what you know, its what you can prove in Court".

It is harsh, but true I am afraid.

Been away a few days just got to your post. Just does not add up . I would like to see a picture of that guy who I believe is him entering that store , there would be enough close up evidence to know for sure. Might be some reason why this was not used by the prosecution ,we just don't know, but if it is him why does it appear he lied on oath?

 

[Luna15]

From James Beal (SWNS)

#tabak trial: All options now on the table. Unanimous verdict, majority verdict...hung jury (gulp)...
In the annex room in court, the television camera angles have been changed in preparation for verdict.
Jo's parents are not present at court today, but boyfriend Greg Reardon is.

that surprises me........

 

[Curious Alice]

that surprises me........

Doubt I could cope with the verdict myself if that were my daughter - so emotional and stressful. More likely to attend at sentencing ?

 

[kINGFISHER]

I find your language insulting and condescending; who are you to judge other’s theories as “gratuitous and improbable”? I also think it highly irresponsible to refer to one of our forum members as a “mole” - she was a fellow sleuther who went to ‘observe’ a trial and was incredibly responsible in what she did share with us.

I would go further, darn threatening, but you get the jist of who's who.

 

[veggiefan]

Goodbye girlfriend, goodbye job, goodbye public esteem, goodbye future...

And all of that will have flashed before his eyes while he was squeezing. (At intense moments the mind's capacity for concentration is in fact increased, not diminished.) .

And yet the one thing that didn't seem to have flashed before his eyes is that killing JY has indeed meant ...

Goodbye girlfriend, goodbye job, goodbye public esteem, goodbye future...

I can't see any logic in his thought process, if that is what it was.

 

[Curious Alice]

And yet the one thing that didn't seem to have flashed before his eyes is that killing JY has indeed meant ...

Goodbye girlfriend, goodbye job, goodbye public esteem, goodbye future...

I can't see any logic in his thought process, if that is what it was.

He thinks he is smart, he thought his subsequent actions would not incriminate him.

 

[FiestyFairy]

Doubt I could cope with the verdict myself if that were my daughter - so emotional and stressful. More likely to attend at sentencing ?

I imagine that they are at a nearby hotel waiting for word from the courts.

 

[goldielox]

Doubt I could cope with the verdict myself if that were my daughter - so emotional and stressful. More likely to attend at sentencing ?

They may well be waiting somewhere close to the court instead...somewhere very close to it so they can make it into court quickly as and when the jury come to a final decision.

 

[whiterum]

He thinks he is smart, he thought his subsequent actions would not incriminate him.

Yes, if he had succeeded in throwing her into the quarry it would have been goodbye Jo , hello again life, hello TM, hello Job. He wanted her to decompose but Jo ‘s body was preserved in the cold and snow and the injuries etc were still evident. Her preserved body was proof of what was done to her and by whom.

 

[Luna15]

Doubt I could cope with the verdict myself if that were my daughter - so emotional and stressful. More likely to attend at sentencing ?

I dont dare to imagine, but I did note that Mr Yeates was reported to have been shaking his head during the defences last arguments.... I think possibly that the whole thing has just been one big bloody farce to them, I would imagine they attended because they wanted to find out the truth of what happened to their precious daughter, they need this in order to help them with their healing process...

no-one can imagine how gut-wrenching it must have been for them to not only endure the graphic images, but to witness that gutless, manipulative, wicked poor excuse of a man, still prepared to go to the most sick and twisted lengths as he tries to wriggle out of his responsibilty...

perhaps it makes no difference to them whether he gets Murder or Manslaughter, nothing is going to bring their baby girl back to them and they are no nearer to understanding why.

My heart bleeds for them.