GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #3

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Luna15 said:
I haven't really paid attention to this guy but just flicked through the link, can anyone decipher what any of this twitter entry means (this is the day Joanna went missing) I dont understand twitter, I assume he made this entry?

Mary Beard on Pompeii: big willies everywhere = male power. Loaded’s female flesh and Islam’s taboo on sexual images evidence of opposite? 1:10 PM Dec 17th, 2010 via web

:waitasec:
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The reference is to a tv programme about Pompeii. He is disagreeing with the presenter's argument that male-dominated societies characteristically use images of naked men to demonstrate power (presumably statues of naked men in Ancient Rome) by contrasting the lack of any nudes in (patriarchal) Islamic societies, and the preference for female nudes in our society (eg Loaded magazine).

What is interesting is that this programme was shown on the Tuesday 14th - why is he tweeting about it at lunchtime on the 17th? Twitter is usually used to react immediately to what is happening now, does that mean he recorded the show and was (at home ?) watching it when he tweeted his reaction? Was he at home that day? Does he work from home? Did he see the jump-starting of the car later on?
 
wfgodot said:
'Debbie,' methinks, is of malarky full.
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I thought she had overdone the funny *advertiser censored*, and was having some kind of 'vision' :floorlaugh: sorry but just cant take that seriously.
 
I do wonder of the accuracy of some of the information the police have fed us, including the media - what if the text made to the CAG was at a much later time than assumed between 8-8pm on the 17th Dec to make it look like she was still alive (basically the murderer sent the text even though Jo was already dead).
 
Firefly75 said:
Agree. Disturbing. It really makes me wonder what kind of immediate neighborhood Jo and Greg moved into, and what exactly is under the surface.
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i was trying to say this in thread 2...i felt very uneasy about the occupants in the 2 houses...still do...
just a gut physical feeling that this is a can of worms....must not mention g** men atmosphere but that is exactly how it felt to me.
enter innocent jo......at night and alone...
 
Also i just wanted to touch on the possiblity of Joanna's infidelities, for those that do get up to know good these days are more likely to have 'TWO' mobile phones to cover their tracks in case the partner checks your mobile ?? Maybe there is a missing mobile phone here ?? You cant rule this out, this is classic behaviour from somebody that is cheating on their partner.
 
MrZhivago said:
The talk today of Jo's "expression in death" doesn't, imho, lead anywhere. Neither as evidence of some kind of chloroform-type attack [which forensics would show up easily] nor as evidence of a struggle-free death.
We don't know whether there was physical evidence of fighting back. But if it is similar to the 1974, then there won't have been.
However, the mention of military training may be relevant, and I've wondered whether a certain somebody was at any point in the army, perhaps as a mechanical engineer?
Still, I don't suppose strangleholds and the like are all that hard to learn.
By the way, if it was manual strangulation (we're getting conflicting reports on that) my money is on it having been done from behind with an arm coming round and crushing the throat. Not that something I learnt doing CCF at school!
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p s was in army. i remember reading...
 
naturally suspicious said:
i was trying to say this in thread 2...i felt very uneasy about the occupants in the 2 houses...still do...
just a gut physical feeling that this is a can of worms....must not mention g** men atmosphere but that is exactly how it felt to me.
enter innocent jo......at night and alone...
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Did i read in an earlier thread there are 500 sex offenders living within 1 mile of Jo & Greggs flat ??

Please correct me ??
 
MrZhivago said:
Apologies if my next few posts are a little haphazard and address things already mentioned. I'm just catching up with what's been posted today...

Anyhow, yes PS said that. But examine what else he said.

This is from by PA and elsewhere on Dec 31:
Mr Stanley said he didn't think Jefferies spoke to Mr Reardon about going away for the weekend, and said: "I wouldn't say there was anything tense between them." The neighbour said he was surprised to hear of the arrest of Jefferies, saying: "Out of everything it has been the most shocking thing." [BTW, what on earth does that reference to tenseness mean?]

and this is from the Daily Mail on Dec 31:
Peter Stanley, who runs the area’s Neighbourhood Watch scheme with Jefferies, said: ‘Chris rang me and asked if I could get the jump-leads out for Greg. I had rescued a lady in the street earlier that day.
‘I was there with Chris, and Greg said he was leaving for Yorkshire to be with family. Chris definitely knew he was travelling to Yorkshire that night alone.’
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I don't know what to make of this - PS seems confused. In fact, both CJ and PS have come across as confused, almost as if they hadn't properly rehearsed their lines in a conspiracy. Add to that, LORP, who is just plain weird - you couldn't make this up, could you?
 
Yes, let's remember the edict: no discussion about sexuality unrelated to known facts of the case.:

PLEASE do not re-introduce into the equation things which currently have no bearing on the case, e.g., paedophiles, or the perceived presence of a gay community in Clifton, Bristol - the first of these is by law condemnable; the second in practice may be exemplary. But neither at this time appear to be at issue in this case.

ETA:

Regardless of intent or perceived intent, let's drop the matter.
 
Originally Posted by naturally suspicious
can of worms....must not mention g** men atmosphere but that is exactly how it felt to me.
What does g** men mean?

Hope you not suggesting: gay men = murderous.....?????.

Agree totally. Let's not get distracted by thinking someone who is Gay is perceived as more of a culprit. The same applies to Cross Dressers.
 
Firefly75 said:
Other things that bug me, many if not all of which have been mentioned already:
*Would a perp unknown to Jo really move the body?
*How would he get in, unless she opened the door to him herself? Also, would the perp have had to go through any other door or hall?
*How early do people go to bed in Bristol?!? In case of illness, I can rather believe it, to a degree.
*Re. Glenis Carruthers murder in 1974: is there anyone who would fit the description of her killer that whose age and description fit loosely to someone who is still around today? "Fit loosely' because it's very easy to misjudge the height or age of people. Especially in the dark, from a distance, etc.
*What state was Jo's other sock in? If she'd gone out in her socked feet (which I find hard to believe - after dark, it could have been wet, muddy, you name it, not to mention freezing cold), the other sock would probably show it. Did Jo have slippers? Are any footwear, hers or BF's, missing from the flat?
*Contamination of the murder/abduction scene. I know BF didn't do it deliberately, but what exactly was it like when he came back, and waited hours before raising alarm?
*If Jo's parents knew within 30 minutes of entering the flat that she didn't go of her own free will, how come the BF, who lived with her, waited for hours before panicking?
*Was the cat starving, traumatized, soiling everywhere? If starving, wouldn't he have miaowed loudly - did the neighbours hear anything? Where was the cat? Does he use a litter tray or does it go out - if so, is there a catflap, does he go through a window, does he miaow to have the door opened? Was LL ok about them having a cat (some of them don't allow pets)?
* Was the door locked when the last person to leave the flat left, ditto all the windows? Was it open/on latch when BF came back? Were any windows open?
*Was there any indication that Jo did pick up her post? Might BF had done it before he left?
*Was Jo an early-to-bed girl? Or would she have gone on to meet someone else? Or arrange with them to meet?
*Phone call to best friend: if she phoned her at 8.30 and they were on the phone for 15 min or so, how come Jo is seen on CCTV without the phone, and doesn't appear to be talking either?
*Was Jo vegetarian, did she like that type of pizza enough to have it when by herself, or even enough to finish the left-overs the next day? Or could she considerately have bought that type of pizza to please someone else?
Was there any indication that she was about to eat?

I hope this doesn't turn into a cold case.
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Just to give an answer or opinion to one or two of these.

*Was Jo vegetarian, did she like that type of pizza enough to have it when by herself, or even enough to finish the left-overs the next day? Or could she considerately have bought that type of pizza to please someone else?

I read somewhere something about there being a reference to glazed ham that suggested she wasn't vegetarian. But take that with a pinch of salt [boom boom].

*Was the cat starving, traumatized, soiling everywhere? If starving, wouldn't he have miaowed loudly - did the neighbours hear anything? Where was the cat? Does he use a litter tray or does it go out - if so, is there a catflap, does he go through a window, does he miaow to have the door opened? Was LL ok about them having a cat (some of them don't allow pets)?

No cat flap. We understand that cat was inside. CJ must tolerate pets, since there's no way he couldn't know about the cat over time. My assumption has been litter tray, without there being a cat flap.
Greg said that the cat was "going mad" when he arrived home. [NB: as is often pointed out, this should have been a major alarm bell, surely. It will either have been starving or will have soiled in places.]

*What state was Jo's other sock in? If she'd gone out in her socked feet (which I find hard to believe - after dark, it could have been wet, muddy, you name it, not to mention freezing cold), the other sock would probably show it. Did Jo have slippers? Are any footwear, hers or BF's, missing from the flat?

You have almost certainly seen the sock, so make your decision!
The sock in the news conference is likely to have been the one found on Jo. The police were forced into releasing the info after The Sun leaked the story of a single sock. [Can we say that they were caught on the hop? [Sorry]]. They didn't have time to find a similar sock to show, so that's why the one we see is in an evidence box, I believe. We see that the heel is a little worn.
We aren't led to believe that she had slippers or anything, nor that shoes are missing from the flat. But then, as with all this, we're not told much.

*If Jo's parents knew within 30 minutes of entering the flat that she didn't go of her own free will, how come the BF, who lived with her, waited for hours before panicking?

This is quite frequently discussed. And [even though I think it remarkable that GR doesn't see anything that leads him to call the police] you have to appreciate that it's a matter of perspective that can make the difference.
Condition a) that you come home and your girlfriend isn't there is a very different from condition b) that your daughter has been reported missing, it's now a police case, and you go into a room to see what you think.
In other words, the difference could be [although may not be] that Jo's parents were *looking* for something, which Greg was not.
Actually, 30 minutes is quite a long time. So we're not talking about splashes of blood across walls etc.
In those 30 minutes they may, say, have looked around the bedroom examining things and found, say, that Jo hadn't taken her pill for a few days [if it was something she took, of course]. Or they might have charged up her phone [if it was out of battery] and seen that she hadn't made any calls all weekend. Such things would be obvious signs of trouble but not signs that Greg missed, because he didn't look for them.
[I actually think it amazing that he *didn't* look for them, but there we go].

*Re. Glenis Carruthers murder in 1974: is there anyone who would fit the description of her killer that whose age and description fit loosely to someone who is still around today? "Fit loosely' because it's very easy to misjudge the height or age of people. Especially in the dark, from a distance, etc.

The A&S Police site says: "The witness described the man as white, between 20 to 25 years old; around 5ft 10inches tall in height, medium build, with brown shoulder length hair. He was wearing a three-quarter length coat and a denim type cap."

I think I posted something to do with this yesterday.

*Would a perp unknown to Jo really move the body?

In my opinion, absolutely not, if the murder took part inside the flat itself.

----

Your questions are very interesting, but sadly a lot can't be answered by us armchair detectives, because we just haven't been given that many facts by the police.
 
Firefly75 said:
I get the impression that'd be nothing surprising - for a city the size of Bristol, the only snag is that you can move into what seems to be a perfectly decent and leafy neighborhood and not know anything about that because it doesn't seem to be the practice in the UK to have any information on RSO's available to every innocent Tom Dick and Harry.
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Agreed. Here in America though, we have good access (or bad access, depending on one's thoughts about right to privacy) to info on RSO's in the community. I don't think the figures are surprising for a city of Bristol's population.
 
naturally suspicious said:
p s was in army. i remember reading...
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I'd love it if you could find that. There's no mention in any news source that I can find [and I've pretty comprehensive news archive access].
I would really, really love to know that. It would fit in with precisely something I was discussing with a friend yesterday.

I'm expecting him to, partly because of the Jeep and also the shooting thing [to whomever asked about the shooting, search for Clifton College's prospectus and PS is listed as a coach for the shooting team, BTW].

Please, please, if you (or any reader) have established a military history for PS, I'd be most grateful to know more.
 
If the parents had been called by Greg late at night after his call to the police, I suppose, with hindsight, it would always be quicker for the parents to form the conclusion of abduction. The inverse would have been true if they had arrived home first and Greg had been called at midnight.

Its quite possible that there was no real difference other than the fact that by that time it was midnight....
 
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