GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5

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Not necessarily - many victorian buildings do not have basements or cellars. But there is likely to be a gap under the floorboards of some kind so that the ground floor is ventilated and not sat directly on damp earth.

In this case, the flat rented by JY & GR is a basement flat, so probably below ground at least in part, and I think it would be extremely unlikely to have cellars or more basements underneath that. In my experience, even large stately homes and mansions tend not to have multi-layer basements, so a Victorian residence is unlikely to have one as a matter of course.
I tend to disagree with you to be honest.

Victorian properties without cellars are in the minority from my experience (Infact I can't recall seeing one without a cellar)
All stately homes, and Mansions from the Victorian era I have seen have cellars.
They were very keen on hiding their coal stores, and services e.t.c under the house. Plus those flats on Canynge Road would have been populated by the very well to do. It's more than likely they had an upstairs/downstairs servants scenario. They also liked to hide the lower class who they employed to wipe their backsides for them.
 
Can you say? or hint?.... dont worry if not!
Yes, I found him after someone else posted that there were 2 light coloured 4 x 4's outside his place of work. I did google it but there were so many vehicles in the car park ..they may not have belonged to him and as the previous poster has said he is a professional and I felt no necessity to publicise it. Think if G/R has implicated him (without his knowledge)...he's a very nasty piece of work.
 
See your point but someone posted earlier that most of the dog walkers may have been working up until Christmas Eve and probably walking dogs morning and night....both of which are quite dark. Maybe Christmas Day was the first 'daylight' sighting....perhaps they, for some reason, chose to walk that side of the road?...the girl who regularly horserides past there said she wouldn't have seen it...and she is in an elevated position. Whilst I'm reasonably sure that he put her there on the 17th.....why did he not take her keys and belongings with her? Maybe he was secure in the knowledge that he had left her hidden somewhere in the flat and could return Sunday...having decided over the weekend what to do with her body....oh! I don't know...but the trial should make very interesting reading!

That's if he pleads not guilty!
 
See your point but someone posted earlier that most of the dog walkers may have been working up until Christmas Eve and probably walking dogs morning and night....both of which are quite dark.

But the dog walkers who found the body wouldn't have said that if they normally go in the dark???

Plus take a look at the Google Street view, you must be completely crazy waking down there at night, there's not a street lamp to be seen. It's total pitch black.
 
Yes, I found him after someone else posted that there were 2 light coloured 4 x 4's outside his place of work. I did google it but there were so many vehicles in the car park ..they may not have belonged to him and as the previous poster has said he is a professional and I felt no necessity to publicise it. Think if G/R has implicated him (without his knowledge)...he's a very nasty piece of work.

I am very surprised to find out his profession! call me old fashioned, but I thought it quite disrespectful of him to be walking with his hands half in his pockets when they went to lay the flowers..... also on Facebook, a lot of Joanna's friends had changed their profile pictures to either the 'Missing' poster or a 'Lily'..... he was posing in dark glasses....in fairness he may not use his F/B that often and just didn't think to change it.

I dont think he got that directly involved, just changed the time that GR arrived, maybe GR said along the lines of....'look bruv, I dont want them pinning this on me, can you just say I got here a bit earlier.....' I dont think the wife is covering, she doesn't know exactly what time he got there, she was asleep.
 
I tend to disagree with you to be honest.

Victorian properties without cellars are in the minority from my experience (Infact I can't recall seeing one without a cellar)
All stately homes, and Mansions from the Victorian era I have seen have cellars.
They were very keen on hiding their coal stores, and services e.t.c under the house. Plus those flats on Canynge Road would have been populated by the very well to do. It's more than likely they had an upstairs/downstairs servants scenario. They also liked to hide the lower class who they employed to wipe their backsides for them.

You'll have to come see my place - built 1880 but no cellar! What I mean is that I don't think there would be two floors below ground - one floor yes, but not two. So if JY+GR flat is basement, I don't think there would be another floor below that.

And yes, attitudes towards servants were assuredly of the 'not seen, not heard' variety.
 
The L/E seem to have ensured that there are no longer any links to the original appeal in which G/R speaks. Not on any of the archive news channels, catch up, iplayer, not included now in any of the newspapers as a link (which it was in the past) ... can only surmise that they have a reason for doing this...and draw my own conclusions that maybe it is because this will become evidence in the future? So, are we wasting valuable time trying hard to come up with other scenarios? I think we may well be.

The police are looking for a confession here, either from the "relative", or more likely from the murderer, who they think won't want to land his "relative" in big deep trouble. It will be interesting to see whether this ploy works.

A small healine in the Sun 1 month on and police still in the dark
 
The reporting, albeit unconfirmed (as are most things in this case) of the 'tidy' apartment perplexes me.

JY didn't go to Sheffield so that she could tidy the place up and prepare for the party. No doubt she would want the place looking amazing as it was their first party in that apartment I believe.

If the bf did it on Friday evening then went on his journey he would be cutting it a bit fine with his alibi timings. Yes he could get away with a bit of extra time accounting for the slight snowfall and the busy roads, but there might be an element of doubt cast upon him by the LE, so the time of her disappearance would need to be seen as being Saturday, imo, or as late after his departure from home as possible.

The person, imo, who had the most credible reason for wanting to remove the body would be the bf. In the case of it being him, he would almost certainly have wanted it to appear as though she had NOT died on Friday, but a bit later, even Saturday - when he was certain to have an alibi, imo.

In a bid to distance himself time-wise from Bristol and the time of death, he would have to leave immediately afterwards on Friday and travel fast.

No phone call on Friday night, to say he'd arrived safely, because she was dead and in no position to answer, and this would mean that he would have to tell the LE later that she was 'missing' from as early as Friday evening, bringing her disappearance and his alibi closer together time-wise. This was too risky, hence no phone call to her Friday night.

Leaving the handbag, mobile phone, coat, keys, etc. would make it appear as though she was 'taken'. In any case, removing the phone could not be risked as triangulation would have established exactly when she went out of no.44. - again bringing closer together the time of death and an alibi.

The body dumped somewhere either Friday evening in panic (or Sunday evening in the 4 hours), now wearing different clothing - tracksuit for example as she had changed immediately when she had got home on Friday.

Apartment tidied up Sunday evening would make it look as though she had worked on it Friday evening and Saturday am (and not died Friday evening around 9pm).

Body moved just before Christmas Day to a very obvious place, as it needed to be found to show the change of clothing to make the LE think that it was not a Friday night thing.

I think the lost sock was a red herring to encourage the perp to return to the first site of disposal to check for it. The suspected perp of course being followed by the LE.

The problem of the pizza: Leaving an uncooked pizza (that she clearly bought for her Friday supper) would show the LE that she had no time to have cooked the pizza before being murdered, therefore time of death close to 9pm Friday. Cooking the pizza before the LE arrived on Sunday night was not an option as the smell would have stuck around. Pizza and packaging had to disappear.

Big 'spanner in the works' when the LL said he saw people in the grounds - this reinforced a Friday evening scenario, then the scream, however this all helps it look like an abduction thus diverting interest elsewhere.

I think the LE might be doing some things right by putting info out like the interest in the Clifton Bridge route (to make the perp feel like he'd fooled the LE with his 'clever' route), the missing sock (to make the perp think the LE were looking for a 'trophy' killer), etc.

I think we will see an arrest shortly. Softly softly.....

jmo.

But, I wonder if LE would have been watching the BF (closely) after Jo disappeared ? I'm not sure he could have moved the body on Christmas Day ?

All JMO
 
A small healine in the Sun 1 month on and police still in the dark

or, so they want the perp to believe :wink:

Unless she's an early to be kinda girl, he must have arrived well late?

I honestly believe he arrived @1am, she could have gone to bed @11pm, dont forget she has twin girls who are a couple of months old (exhausting!!) GR could already have warned he was going to be late, FR tells wife, you go up and get some sleep, I'll wait up, FR even tells wife, yeah he arrived @11.30-12 ..... not sure of the exact timings but IF he did it, I cant see him arriving there much before 1am.

Even if he told the police he arrived @1am..... couldn't he have put that down to weather/driving conditions?
 
Hi everyone - I must say there have been amazing posts as usual -

I still stick to it all being quite simple BUT lucky (or may prove otherwise for him with preservation) with the weather etc

GR and JY jump in car drive to get alcohol after he decides not to go see brother - weather was awful and met office advised that night to travel only if urgent - They argue - JY strangled in fit of rage - panics, dumps body quickly behind large boulder . Disposes of pizza/box as he realises the only things to clean are the things she brought home with her... afterall he doesnt know that her body wont be discovered until Christmas day. If shes discovered whilst he's visiting his brother and his prints are on the box that wont look good would it?

Drives to brothers - texts and rings Jo over the weekend of course trying to cover his butt- arrives home at 8pm - and STILL it takes him 4 hours to realise there is something wrong??

Think about this ... whilst he was away and had no reply off his phone calls or text messages...why did he not ring a friend/ family memeber then to ask if they had spoken to Jo?? Why?? IMO he was delaying the inevitable...
 
I’ve previously expressed sympathy for GR and hope that hasn’t been misplaced. Something needs explaining though. When he returned home on Sunday, there was almost certainly an undisturbed carpet of snow on the path leading to the front door of the flat: no postman (post delivered other side), no milkman (very rare these days), no door-to-door salesmen (-10C, snow), no friends called that weekend (otherwise we’d have been told that as a fact of great significance).

So he’d know even before entering the flat that either
A. she was in, and had been in for most of the weekend; or
B. she was out, and had been out for most of the weekend.

On finding that she was out, and seeing her purse, keys, bag, coat……surely, especially as her soulmate, he’d know within a few seconds that something was up - seriously up?

But maybe someone had left footprints in the snow, who knows?

Whatever you say, though, I still don’t think it was GR, because I find it hard to believe that he could have doubled back without being seen by anyone or picked up by CCTV, and then still got to Sheffield at approximately the right time.
 
I think the blackout of the GR appeal

No arrests yet made or info on new dna because there is NO new dna to be found

The family and GR walking to the site where the flowers were laid EVEN though this was NOT where her body was found...why? were they watching his reaction?
 
I find it hard to believe that he could have doubled back without being seen by anyone or picked up by CCTV, and then still got to Sheffield at approximately the right time.

From the reports we know of, no one did actually see him set off. He was assumed to have set off.
He might not have had to back track anywhere, maybe as far as the toilet perhaps.

Unless the Police know better and were not to find out.
 
I’ve previously expressed sympathy for GR and hope that hasn’t been misplaced. Something needs explaining though. When he returned home on Sunday, there was almost certainly an undisturbed carpet of snow on the path leading to the front door of the flat: no postman (post delivered other side), no milkman (very rare these days), no door-to-door salesmen (-10C, snow), no friends called that weekend (otherwise we’d have been told that as a fact of great significance).

So he’d know even before entering the flat that either
A. she was in, and had been in for most of the weekend; or
B. she was out, and had been out for most of the weekend.

On finding that she was out, and seeing her purse, keys, bag, coat……surely, especially as her soulmate, he’d know within a few seconds that something was up - seriously up?

But maybe someone had left footprints in the snow, who knows?

Whatever you say, though, I still don’t think it was GR, because I find it hard to believe that he could have doubled back without being seen by anyone or picked up by CCTV, and then still got to Sheffield at approximately the right time.

Exactly the points you made are reasons against him too Slewth - if he'd known she'd not been there all weekend and her purse/keys in the flat would it really take him 4 hours to start getting unconcerned? The cctv at night is horrendous and unless crystal clear is like looking for a needle in a haystack - I am sure that in time though it will be found
 
I’ve previously expressed sympathy for GR and hope that hasn’t been misplaced. Something needs explaining though. When he returned home on Sunday, there was almost certainly an undisturbed carpet of snow on the path leading to the front door of the flat: no postman (post delivered other side), no milkman (very rare these days), no door-to-door salesmen (-10C, snow), no friends called that weekend (otherwise we’d have been told that as a fact of great significance).

So he’d know even before entering the flat that either
A. she was in, and had been in for most of the weekend; or
B. she was out, and had been out for most of the weekend.

On finding that she was out, and seeing her purse, keys, bag, coat……surely, especially as her soulmate, he’d know within a few seconds that something was up - seriously up?

But maybe someone had left footprints in the snow, who knows?

Whatever you say, though, I still don’t think it was GR, because I find it hard to believe that he could have doubled back without being seen by anyone or picked up by CCTV, and then still got to Sheffield at approximately the right time.

I thought that, but then I think, their road was dark (poor lighting) people are in their house with the curtains pulled at 9, who knows what's going on in their street at 9pm? on a dark winters night.... I am surprised by the CCTV, but then if the quality of the last presumed image of Joanna on the street is anything to go by, the police really have their work cut out finding him on poor quality CCTV.

I honestly believe, they (police) knew from the get go it was him, and they are just making it fit.
 
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