GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #6

[liz b.]

If this were true (and again, not suggesting at all that it is) I suspect so of the less scrupulous members of the press would have been all over it in some drug-fuelled-orgy-tragic-death kind of headline.

I do not mean to imply that it is true. I was more interested in who might have been the supplier of any such " recreational " drugs....

All JMO

 

[equationgirl]

Sorry, I used the wrong word. I was trying to get across that if there were slightest chance of a drug-related context then the media would have jumped on it like a pack of rabid dogs.

Talking of which, yes, foxes do sound eerily like a woman screaming. I know of one instance where a rural couple heard screams one night and thought it was a fox. Sadly, it turned out to be a woman being raped nearby. Just shows how alike the two sounds are.

 

[liz b.]

And I just cannot discount that text message. " Where are you ? " just doesn't ring true,IMO, if one is contacting someone who has been out of one's life for over 18 months... IMO, she had seen him at some point in her near past. How close did he live to JY and GR ? Whose idea was it to rent that particular flat,in that particular neighborhod ?

All JMO

 

[Rossetti]

And I just cannot discount that text message. " Where are you ? " just doesn't ring true,IMO, if one is contacting someone who has been out of one's life for over 18 months..

But she wasn't and he wasn't. They had been in contact via emails and facebook, possibly by phone too. He was probably invited to the housewarming party.

 

[Nausicaa]

And I just cannot discount that text message. " Where are you ? " just doesn't ring true,IMO, if one is contacting someone who has been out of one's life for over 18 months... IMO, she had seen him at some point in her near past. How close did he live to JY and GR ? Whose idea was it to rent that particular flat,in that particular neighborhod ?

He hadn't been completely out of her life for 18 months. See here.

We have here an erroneous initial statement in the media that there had been no contact for 2 years. Every intelligent person could see that this claim was false. Hence it was inferred that there was in fact a very high level of intimacy which MW was trying to conceal. But in fact once the original media error is corrected - they had been in touch but had not met or been in telephone contact for 18 months - no mystery remains, nor any evidence that anyone is trying to conceal anything.

And between the police who tell us nothing and the press who tell us more than they know, give me the police every time.

 

[laserdisc10]

And I just cannot discount that text message. " Where are you ? " just doesn't ring true,IMO, if one is contacting someone who has been out of one's life for over 18 months... IMO, she had seen him at some point in her near past. How close did he live to JY and GR ? Whose idea was it to rent that particular flat,in that particular neighborhod ?

All JMO

' Where are you ? ' --- to me --- means, ' Where are you ? '


MW reportedly did not answer, we're told. So JY was leaving a message, was not receiving feedback in real time from MW. Basically, she was speaking to herself

'Where are you ? ' implies a broken appointment, doesn't it ? Doesn't it imply MW wasn't where JY expected him to be ? Did she leave the Ram because she was expecting to meet up with MW ?

Otherwise, if she had wanted to simply catch-up via phone, wouldn't she have said, ' How are you ? ' or ' Hi, JY here --- etc.' ?

All just my opinion, of course

 

[teabreid]

And I just cannot discount that text message. " Where are you ? " just doesn't ring true,IMO, if one is contacting someone who has been out of one's life for over 18 months... IMO, she had seen him at some point in her near past. How close did he live to JY and GR ? Whose idea was it to rent that particular flat,in that particular neighborhod ?

All JMO

I must say it seemed a strange thing to me to text like this to someone you haven't seen (in person) for 18 months. But even more strange to me was the idea of not seeing this person for 18 months, despite living and working in the same provincial city.

The text reads to me as though they had arranged to meet (waitrose?) and he hadn't turned up. Maybe a generation thing, though, and I'm reading the situation wrongly.

 

[Rossetti]

' Where are you ? ' --- to me --- means, ' Where are you ? '


MW reportedly did not answer, we're told. So JY was leaving a message, was not receiving feedback in real time from MW. Basically, she was speaking to herself

'Where are you ? ' implies a broken appointment, doesn't it ? Doesn't it imply MW wasn't where JY expected him to be ? Did she leave the Ram because she was expecting to meet up with MW ?

Otherwise, if she had wanted to simply catch-up via phone, wouldn't she have said, ' How are you ? ' or ' Hi, JY here --- etc.' ?

All just my opinion, of course

He did answer, albeit not immediately. He was at his office party. It was JY who didn't reply after that.

And 'Where are you?' followed by 'Fancy a drink?' certainly doesn't suggest what you imply, not to me. It's an invitation conditional on the invitee being nearby and free, that's all.

 

[scottybail]

I've never seen this raised : were Jo and GR ever known to use any " recreational " drugs ?

All JMO

It would be quite common. Recreational drug use is quite common in the UK even among athletic types.

This might raise the possibility of a drug dealer murderer. Might also explain why she left the pub early and why she didn't go to the christening. She had an appointment with the dealer.

One would have thought however, that this person would certainly have been known to Greg.

Bang goes that theory then!

 

[angel10510]

Nausicca, I wonder if that 'secret clue' was what led them to CJ so quickly. So far he is the only official suspect. He can't have been arrested because people said he was weird and used to have blue hair, and because he said he saw three people, one of whom may or may not have been JY.

No evidence has emerged, at least as of yet, that contradicts GR's alibi. Nothing (yet?) has shown that he and JY were anything other than a devoted couple. No evidence of a row at lunch, or one later after she returned from the pub. As far as we know (now), GR left Bristol Friday evening and returned Sunday night.

Perhaps since JY's keys were found in the flat, and GR was away, they focused on CJ since he was the other known person with access. Perhaps they spoke to previous tenants who said CJ was known to enter apartments. And perhaps they found something else we don't know about. If so, whatever it was wasn't enough to proceed with the charges.

 

[otto]

Did anyone find the post on Forensics, digestion of foods and rigor mortis helpful? If not then let me know and I'll stop searching for answers - I'd hate to be wasting time on something that's of no use to anyone

I found it very interesting ... food for thought.

 

[laserdisc10]

I must say it seemed a strange thing to me to text like this to someone you haven't seen (in person) for 18 months. But even more strange to me was the idea of not seeing this person for 18 months, despite living and working in the same provincial city.

The text reads to me as though they had arranged to meet (waitrose?) and he hadn't turned up. Maybe a generation thing, though, and I'm reading the situation wrongly.

Imo, sounds to me as if they'd arranged to meet, also

It would explain her phone call to him after an alleged 18 months absence of verbal communication. And it would explain the strange message she reportedly left, i.e., ' Where are you ' ?

Then of course, we're required to step into the world of weird-coincidence, i.e., JY and MW were slight acquantances, we're told. MW is a friend/associate of JY's brother, it's been reported

So JY leaves the Ram before the others. On her way, it's reported that she decides to establish verbal communication for the first time in approx. 18 months with MW. And she is passing or close-to the very location in which MW is at that very moment -- when she contacts him to ask, ' Where are you ? '

It inclines me to suspect JY entered the venue within the Triangle in which she expected to find MW. Wondering if LE have got around to scrutinizing that venue's cctv for sight of JY ...

All just my opinion

 

[naturally suspicious]

All that information was so very interesting...thanks SashaM.
I had no idea that the skin came away nor of the many other changes after death.
It seems that as live people we can be beautiful, but that immediately disappears after death.

I think the landlord was arrested mainly because he was seeking to change his story, and this was spotted by Martin Brunt, of Sky news.
Initially, he told neighbours of having been on the scene at about 9pm, when he saw Jo and 2 other figures leaving the flat....he was arriving at the house in his car...so giving himself an alibi...but once the police heard of this from others and sought to question him his story became vaguer and vaguer. He even accused the ITV interviewer...at the gate... of maybe distorting his story even more.
This, and the fact that he had odd habits....going into tenants' rooms uninvited. and during their absence... would only add fuel to the fire.

 

[naturally suspicious]

i wonder...did greg boyfriend have any idea that jo might be thinking of opening contact with matthew....

had they met as a group before..
..
a strange thing to do the moment greg had left for w/e.....

wonder how greg feels now he knows that she tried to instigate contact with another man...

 

[Sweep the cat]

And I just cannot discount that text message. " Where are you ? " just doesn't ring true,IMO, if one is contacting someone who has been out of one's life for over 18 months... IMO, she had seen him at some point in her near past. How close did he live to JY and GR ? Whose idea was it to rent that particular flat,in that particular neighborhod ?

All JMO

I did post on this point earlier but sorry I havent a clue how to find it. If JY had spoken to MW on the phone at work earlier in the day and arranged for him to come over to her flat that evening knowing GR was going away, it would make sense that she would ask "where are you - do you fancy a drink". She may have thought that they would have a drink together before their evening began. It may have been that he text back saying he was at a party as an alibi. Is there any conclusive evidence placing him where he said he was. JMO

 

[enqueteur]

I've been reading some of Jo's parents' comments and found this one of her mom's interesting:

‘She also liked to test her boyfriends and would always challenge them to an arm wrestle. It was a sort of initiation.’

Is it possible that some playful arm wrestling got out of control and lead to 'constriction of the neck'?

 

[laserdisc10]

I did post on this point earlier but sorry I havent a clue how to find it. If JY had spoken to MW on the phone at work earlier in the day and arranged for him to come over to her flat that evening knowing GR was going away, it would make sense that she would ask "where are you - do you fancy a drink". She may have thought that they would have a drink together before their evening began. It may have been that he back saying he was at a party as an alibi. Is there any conclusive evidence placing him where he said he was. JMO

Many, many posters in many fora have questioned this incident and explanations for it. But there have been those within many fora who've been determined to steer people away from this sort of speculation and to do so, they've either refuted any suggestion of MW/JY involvement that night, or they've simply tried to steer people's attention to other issues

As we've seen though, it's something that will not go away. People continue to return to it, because it's one of the very few certainties surrounding that night

No matter how much downplaying is attempted, it is a peculiar situation. On one hand, people bend over backwards to claim JY and GR were 'besotted'. Yet right there under the public's nose is the fact that JY did not choose for whatever reason to attend the Christening with him, despite they could both have driven there together after she'd finished work. So why didn't she go with GR ? It's never been explained, has it ?

Next, the moment GR has left, JY is phoning some guy who's supposedly a casual acquaintance of her brother to ask, ' Where are you ? Fancy a drink ? '

So was she bored with GR ? Was she looking around to replace him ? Was she looking for a fling ? Did she phone other guys that night and ask if they'd like a drink ?

MW doesn't conform with most women's idea of attractive, as far as I'm aware

So was it a meeting of minds ? Well, LE would have a lot of the online communication between them and would be in a position to know the answer to that ?

What was it about MW that prompted JY to phone him, asking if he'd like a drink ? Looks ? Charm ? Wealth ? Sex appeal ? Shoulder to lean on ?

And why after 18 months during which they hadn't seen each other ... allegedly ... did she seek a face to face encounter ? First opportunity without GR ? Or was GR aware JY was going to try to meet up with MW ? And was GR fine with that ?

And have LE forensically examined MW's vehicle/s ? And examined cctv footage of the venue it's claimed MW was at, and for how long ? If not, why not ?

All just my opinion

 

[laserdisc10]

It would be quite common. Recreational drug use is quite common in the UK even among athletic types.

This might raise the possibility of a drug dealer murderer. Might also explain why she left the pub early and why she didn't go to the christening. She had an appointment with the dealer.

One would have thought however, that this person would certainly have been known to Greg.

Bang goes that theory then!

Wondering why you banged your own post on the head, when it seems quite a pertinent post, all things considered

 

[brownbread]

I Alternatively it might have been not physical evidence, but that they had already received a report from some eye-witness (for instance someone who saw a body being carried by an unidentified person), or it might conceivably have been, as has already been suggested, that Joanna at some stage knew she was in danger and called the police, but could not get any further….

Great post - I had wondered about the possibility of the police having received a call on Friday night from Jo, but her hanging up before speaking to them. This would require the police to have some kind of system whereby they keep a record of hang-ups and recognised that Greg's call on Sunday night was from the same phone number. This would of course require them both to have called from the same number - either their landline or conceivably Jo's moble phone.

Is it possible that such a system exists?

I am at a loss for what else the 'secret clue' could be that wouldn't be noticed or arouse suspicion from Greg for four hours, yet could be obvious enough that it immediately suggested murder or abduction to the police?

Having said that, I don't think its that improbable that the police just took the case seriously from the start on the basis of known facts - there aren't many logical explanations for a young woman to be absent from her flat at midnight on a Sunday night, without keys/phone/purse and after a period of over 48hrs since her last contact with anyone. I'd have thought that alone could well be enough to get the police round, particularly on a quiet Sunday night - maybe they had a patrol car in the area and they radioed them to pop by the flat. After meeting a presumably frantic boyfriend, making contact with her family and closest friends, established that they'd not seen or heard from her either - then surely alarm bells are ringing without the need for any secret clue.

I've only had two 'emergency' interactions with the police in my life (both of which happily turned out to be false alarms), and in both instances they treated the events with much more urgency than I would have expected. I think that we might be underestimating their level of responsiveness.

And I just cannot discount that text message. " Where are you ? " just doesn't ring true,IMO, if one is contacting someone who has been out of one's life for over 18 months

I think we're reading too much into the exact wording - if I recall correctly, this was only published in one newspaper who got the info through doorstepping MW who wasn't keen to be interviewed. I think the chances that MW either paraphrased or was misquoted are very high. I think we can assume this was the general gist of the text, but the exact phrasing is probably a red herring.

 

[teabreid]

I've always wondered how GR felt about the fact he was going to what was presumably for him an important family event without his "other half" ? Jo didn't seem to have any good reason not to go with him, that I've heard. Could he have been angry about it? Just seems to jar with the perfect relationship that is painted. As does the text to MW.