GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #7

[Marc D.]

This quote only means she was found without her jacket (the white one) and her boots (the ones from the vid).

Does not mean though she was found without a jacket or footwear. Just means not the ones in the video. Maybe she was wearing a different jacket, or a fleece, or a poncho. Maybe she was wearing shoes or different footwear.

I think it was only poorly worded. When they said 'she was fully clothed', they meant that she was not naked or half naked. And 'she was not wearing her jacket and not wearing her boots and she was only wearing one sock' does not mean that she was wearing another coat and other shoes; they would have mentioned it, I think, because it would have been too important, considering that it was not known if she had made it home.

I believe other articles made this clearer.

 

[whiterum]

I would not pay attention to what an ex-Scotland Yard Commander has to say, considering that he probably does not know more than we do. This 'new clue' has yet to be officially and more precisely worded.

'Close to breakthrough' is exactly equal to 'far from breakthrough', it only means 'still stuck' but it sells more paper.

Exactly, what new break through, the culprit may have ate the pizza. Oh I'm off to bed before my head explodes :maddening:

 

[Phillb]

First I really enjoyed reading about the sociapaths article. I have a brother who is a sociopath. I can tell you quote clearly from bitter experience that you cannot have one of them in your life.

These people really are very dangerous, not only by the fact they they are capable of such cruelty to loved ones but also the people associated to them.

Exactly.
I had the mispleasure to meet one of these myself, thankfully I was wise to him straight away. But I can vouch they are extremely convincing, they fool many, many people, and they cause havoc wherever they go. It isn't until your aware of them, that you can spot the tell tale signs in others.

The fact that Jo was his first serious girlfriend speaks volumes to me
If G.R is found guilty, I wonder how half brother will feel being charged with aiding & abetting a murderer after he got conned into it? That's his life ruined too.

I'm glad your away from your troubles now Sweep the cat. As you rightly say, Sociopaths are truly the slyest, and most decietful creatures you never hope to meet. Certainly they can bluff their way out of a murder quite easily.

 

[jasmine1]

I think I can recall reading it very early on.

Re the cat being locked in a room. It was me that suggested it early on, not sure whether it was on here or on another forum.

It was my speculation to explain why maybe the cat was going mad and that locking the cat in the room and then leaving it would be not what Jo would do normally. Jo could also have shut it in a room if she went to answer the door if Bernard was the Houdini type. However, having now seen the flat layout, this would probably not be necessary.

I've never seen it written or heard it mentioned anywhere else til now!

 

[Marc D.]

Exactly, what new break through, the culprit may have ate the pizza. Oh I'm off to bed before my head explodes :maddening:

I kinda mixed up the 'new clue' that this Commander was mentioning (the fact that JY did not eat the pizza) and the 'close to breakthrough' announcement, sorry, but I still meant what I said.

 

[Myserty64]

From The Sun:

Sources close to the probe yesterday promised a "highly significant" development.

It follows a series of forensic tests and a massive trawl through phone records and CCTV footage.

A source said: "There is a great deal of excitement at what has been unearthed."
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html

 

[wfgodot]

Re the cat being locked in a room. It was me that suggested it early on, not sure whether it was on here or on another forum.

It was my speculation to explain why maybe the cat was going mad and that locking the cat in the room and then leaving it would be not what Jo would do normally. Jo could also have shut it in a room if she went to answer the door if Bernard was the Houdini type. However, having now seen the flat layout, this would probably not be necessary.

I've never seen it written or heard it mentioned anywhere else til now!

I expect that's where I read it, in your post - have googled about and can't find its mention anywhere in the media as of yet. Thanks for pointing this out - when one follows many aspects of a case closely, things tend to blur at some point, lol. At least that's what happens to me.

 

[MrZhivago]

Depends what you mean by prevalent. Maybe it is in London but I don't think you can apply that as a sweeping generalisation to the whole of the UK, and to all young professionals.

As I've said before, if there were the slightest whiff of any drug use in this case the media would have made a HUGE deal out of it and there would have lots more reporting. I simply do not think that drugs are involved in this case, and I think we should be very careful about implying that there could be. Suggesting that certain individuals are drug dealers, even hypothetically, could have legal ramifications for this website.

I agree with you, equationgirl, that a drugs link is very unlikely.
But I nearly spluttered a mouthful of coffee over my keyboard at reading your last two sentences re taking care not to tar anybody a drug dealer.
There are well over half a dozen individuals who've been cleared named here as the killer. Crikey, most of us have named one person, gone to bed, and then the next morning pinpointed somebody else.
I think the greatest legal threat is that there may be one or two people in Clifton who we *haven't* labelled as a psychotic killers, and they'll sue for the fact that they won't be invited to have a role in the TV mini-series ten years down the line.

 

[wfgodot]

Great find, Myserty64, I'd been refreshing that Sun homepage tonight for weeks now, it seems.

More from your link:

Detectives also suspect strangled Jo's corpse could have been stowed in a vehicle for several days before it was dumped in a snowbound lane. The suitcase theory arose due to a lack of drag marks on Jo's body or clothing.
---
Jo's street was busy in the pre-Christmas period when she vanished, with several people at parties in neighbouring houses.

A police insider said: "It would be strange if someone was able to move a body without being spotted.

"But someone carrying a bag or pulling a suitcase on wheels would not have stood out. It was the weekend before Christmas so a lot of people were going away for the holiday."

 

[Patticake]

At the end of this article ...

Police DENY Twitter post about bag or suitcase.

[I wonder if he leaked it by mistake].

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html


.

 

[MrZhivago]

From The Sun:

Sources close to the probe yesterday promised a "highly significant" development.

It follows a series of forensic tests and a massive trawl through phone records and CCTV footage.

A source said: "There is a great deal of excitement at what has been unearthed."
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html

"The suitcase theory arose due to a lack of drag marks on Jo's body or clothing."

....

"But because there are 25 strides between her door and the road, they are convinced a case or large holdall was used to conceal the movement."

...

" A police insider said: "It would be strange if someone was able to move a body without being spotted.

"But someone carrying a bag or pulling a suitcase on wheels would not have stood out. It was the weekend before Christmas so a lot of people were going away for the holiday." "


Translation: the Plod has sod all new to go on, so have desperately invented out of nowhere the "breakthrough" that the body might have been put in a bag. Jeeez....
Still, at least in points to the fact that they seem to think she died at the flat rather than leaving there alive.

 

[Phillb]

Great find, myserty64, I'd been refreshing that Sun homepage tonight for weeks now, it seems.

More from your link:

Detectives also suspect strangled Jo's corpse could have been stowed in a vehicle for several days before it was dumped in a snowbound lane.

The more I read, the more I have to say the Police have to be reading this forum to get these new ideas to investigate. The way the body was moved, and possibly been stored in a car is all what's coming from you guys on here isn't it? The fact they got the house plans as well e.t.c.

I'm glad there is big doubts on the body being in Longwood Lane for 8 days.
I'm hoping they've revised their C.C.T.V footage investigation to Christmas morning.

 

[MMENJBRIT]

Re: SweeptheCat sociopath article:

Could someone pls re-post this link?..

Thank you.

 

[Marc D.]

From The Sun:

Sources close to the probe yesterday promised a "highly significant" development.

It follows a series of forensic tests and a massive trawl through phone records and CCTV footage.

A source said: "There is a great deal of excitement at what has been unearthed."
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html

Officers are now checking surveillance camera footage taken from the Clifton Suspension Bridge for signs of a car with a large bag on the back seat.

I was sure they would say that. It is almost pathetic. When one is carrying a dead woman in a very large bag on one's back seat, one usually chooses the bridge with very bright lights and 30 CCTV cameras, that makes sense.

This is the breakthrough. We know a lot, now. They are almost there, it is a question of minutes. If (why do I say 'if'?) the guy took the other bridge, he will sleep well tonight again and look good on photos.

 

[Phillb]

Re: SweeptheCat sociopath article:

Could someone pls re-post this link?..

Thank you.

It was something I posted earlier.
There's relevant links included, you just might see G.R in a new light if you read it.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #7

 

[otto]

Hi again otto. Problem is I dont see that as any more strange than someone killing her in her flat and then moving the body, but leaving bits and pieces of clothing in various places, including taking a pizza but not other items of shopping.

But thats the core of the thing, isnt it tho? Im not starting from the point of view of 'who dunnit', just from the inferences we being asked to make by the police, some of which - like the pizza meal which wasnt - turn out to have entirely misleading.

If Im asked to choose between two possible versions, on the basis of what we have been told, I can understand that someone she knew would apprehend the girl on her way home and persuade or bundle her into a car. From then, whatever happened and however it happened, its simple, much more simple than lugging a body out of a flat in an evening into a car, travelling with it riskily and in public for at least three miles and then dumping it, and with no conceivable reason for doing so in the first place.

Entering a flat no one is in, and no one is expected to return to for two days, and in an area no one has any reason to suspect foul play of any description having taken place, in order to leave a few items of clothing and give the impression a victim had not in fact been apprehended by someone she knew on her way home but had been kidnapped by a stranger or otherwise mysteriously assaulted in her own home, may be a bit rococo, but its not as gothic as the scenario of a dead body being carried out of the flat into a waiting car which would have been outside the house for some time before it left with its cargo and which no one saw, though the place is full of nosey parkers and neighbourhood watchers, one of whom is under arrest.

When DCI Jones says 'The jacket and her boots were found at her home address. That would indicate that Jo returned home,' Im not convinced by that. Maybe there is other information we dont have, but this alone is not obvious to me.

And until the police state categorically - enough nods and winks already! - that Ms Yeates did in fact return home that evening and was then carried, alive or dead, from that flat into a car which was then driven through the streets to the location of dumping, I dont know why any of us should be expected to follow that line of thinking alone.

There are a lot of different ways to interpret the information that we have, and it's interesting to see the different viewpoints. I like to take the shortest possible distance between two points. If Joanna's keys and things are in the flat, I'm assuming she returned home and put them there. If she is missing, and later found fully clothed with no sign of sexual assault, I'm inclined to think she was murdered by the boyfriend - because I can't think of any other person that would have a motive for removing a fully clothed, un-sexually-assaulted (that's definitely not a word) body from the scene of the crime. I could see her abducted and assaulted elsewhere, but she was not sexually assaulted. If the pizza is missing, I'm inclined to think someone ate it ... maybe the boyfriend. I don't see a stranger murdered or abducting someone (nor an acquaintance) and then taking dinner out with the body. On the flip side, the boyfriend does not seem to be detained (like the landlord) so I have to think that he is still considered to be a witness - not suspect. If the boyfriend is in the clear, then I think it has to be someone else that was so comfortable in the flat that he had dinner, and then felt it necessary to hide Joanna and take the investigation elsewhere.

I'm also suspicious of the 4 hours between the boyfriend returning home, and contacting police. I just don't understand how he could have sat there for 4 hours and not tried phoning her - especially after no contact throughout the weekend. A quick phone call would have resulted in her phone ringing on the table. He would have then realized that her keys, phone, etc. were in the flat. That should have been enough for him to start phoning friends to see where she was. Did he make those phone calls and then, only at midnight, realize the situation was very serious and call her parents?

 

[whitedove]

Jo must have known the perpetrator, if she was picked up on the road and taken to where she was found on the roadside, they would have to know where to return her belongings.
If she was killed in the flat, they would have to know her to get in there, and they would know G/R was away for the weekend

If someone she knew picked her up and offered a lift home but took her to the roadside, that might have happened very quickly with a lot of panic, they might have to move quickly away as there were cars on the road and may not have had time to drop her belongings with the body, but after that they may have had time to think of their situation and thought, someone may have seen Jo get into the car and the murderer would have to answer to the question, so if he returns the belongings, he can then say he picked her up and dropped her off at her flat, and her belongings were in the flat, so he is telling the truth.

So many times we have seen a boy friend with crocodile tears asking his loved one to come home when he knows she will never come home, and you wonder if there will be Breaking News in the morning, Boy friend Arrested for Murder, I think G/R loved his girlfriend, she might have told him at lunch time on Friday she wants to call it a day, it could be enough to push him over the edge, he may have started on his journey, then done a u turn, but he would have been checked very carefully for any time that he was away, if there was enough time to return over the weekend he was away, then they will have to find evidence to eliminate him.

[FONT=&quot]So we have to keep an open mind and keep finding new idea’s of how Jo and her belongings where in different places, and what happened to the pizza.[/FONT]

 

[otto]

I don't think that the above follows really.
Indeed, I'd say that Bernard, and his "acting crazy" on Sunday evening is possibly in Greg's favour.
First, though, it has to be pointed out that Jo can't have died Sunday evening. This is because, if she did, the police could not rule out her having eaten the pizza. The fact that they *can* rule that out means that they have to have proof that she died no later than such time as the pizza would have been fully digested [and so on... (!)]. So this rules out the idea earlier put about in various places that GR comes home on Sunday and kills her (which had a number of big problems anyway).
Now, if GR *had* killed Jo on Sunday afternoon, it might have made sense for him to say "I got back on Sunday and the cat was going bananas", since that would strengthen the supposition that she was killed on Friday, and he would then be able to account for where he was then.
Yet, if GR killed Jo on *Friday* and then was claiming that it was kind of normal that he didn't raise the alarm well before midnight *why on earth would he mention that the cat was going nuts?*
This only struck me the other day, but I think it's a compelling factor in Greg's favour. Because, to reiterate, given that so many of us [myself included] are thinking "Jeez, it just isn't right that he would toddle about doing nothing on Sunday night when he hadn't heard from her all weekend, the cat was going nuts"... Greg has actually *given* us, voluntarily, reason to be very suspicious. Whereas, if he had killed her he would have made no mention of the cat.
There may be a number of reasons to suspect Greg. But, if he's not stupid, the cat business oddly goes in his favour. Because Bernard would have been calmed down and fed by the time Jo's parents got to the house. And the cat situation would not be against him.
Of course, he might have done it and he might also be stupid. On its own, though, I think it goes quite a long way in his favour.

Anyhow, hello again people. I'm afraid I haven't been able to follow this case terribly much lately, and feel that I don't anyhow have anything much to contribute, for want of much real evidence coming out. But I'm enjoying glancing here from time to time and benefiting from the insights of some dedicated and talented sleuths.
Cy'all after tomorrow's CrimeWatch. [On which note, if the feature doesn't make it on to YouTube perhaps one of us Brits can see if they can export it from the Beeb iPlayer to somewhere accessible to our trans-Atlantic friends?
If nobody else can do it, I can try to do so, but probably not before the weekend.]

Interesting point about the cat ... does a freaked out cat get an owner's attention, or does the owner simply think the cat is moody. I have an allergy to cats and have no idea how to interpret a freaked out cat.

 

[Rossetti]

Translation: the Plod has sod all new to go on, so have desperately invented out of nowhere the "breakthrough" that the body might have been put in a bag. Jeeez....

Actually I think they have known this from the start, and it is not a suitcase or luggage-style bag - but a case for a surfboard or snowboard. Why would a case like this be missing from the flat? A suitcase might have been lent to a friend, but this, not so likely.

I think this is the thing that caused them all to think she was dead, and that the police asked the parents not to talk about.

It was missing from the flat - I wonder if it is still missing or .....

Officers are now checking surveillance camera footage taken from the Clifton Suspension Bridge for signs of a car with a large bag on the back seat.

I was sure they would say that. It is almost pathetic. When one is carrying a dead woman in a very large bag on one's back seat, one usually chooses the bridge with very bright lights and 30 CCTV cameras, that makes sense.

I wouldn't pay much attention, it's the Sun innit. What's all that about the back seat? Most cars have got boot space that can't be seen from outside.

 

[MoveEveryStone]

This could be backed up by his mum saying the JY was the first serious girlfriend he had had. That's not usual for a (then) 25 year old, my husband had had two 'serious' girlfriends (though not lived with them) by the time we met when he was 18.
.

What strikes me about GR in relation to the fact that JY was his first and only serious GF is that there is no track record of how he deals with rejection. More commonly males (or females) by the time they are 25 will have had several semi-serious and a few serious relationships. People learn through those relationships how to deal with the emotions of those relationships ending. People learn the emotional skills to deal with rejection, pick up the pieces and more on with life. Some people are better at it than others, and those that respond poorly will have some track record of how they behaved when relationships ended.

With GR we just don't know. Even he may not have had any idea how he would react to rejection, for it doesn't appear he would have had the opportunity to learn those skills.