GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #8

[wfgodot]

Hi. First post, been an occasional visitor for some time.

Someone posted that NUA was happy his GF had come into his life. That perhaps came from a note on his PHD thesis:



http://alexandria.tue.nl/extra2/200910371.pdf

(big file, 4+ MB)

Welcome to WS and the Yeates threads, moshimoshi.

 

[Rossetti]

Does anyone know if theses flats are all single private residences? Does the landord CJ own the block or just his own flat plus JY's flat?

The whole building used to belong to Clifton College and was used as staff accommodation. Some flats were sold off to retired staff, inc Mr Jefferies' flat and (I believe) the two top floor flats. I understand that Mr Jefferies owns both the basement flats. It's on record that he bought JY/GR flat from another former Clifton College master, the one who is now banged up in chokey.

I should think Mr Jefferies is none too pleased with recent events, to say the least.

 

[otto]

This floorplan is still a bit sketchy, as the detail in the news article are a bit obscured with text ... still, it's close.

Who could have guessed that the plans would become so relevant!

 

[laserdisc10]

Blocked off doors are very common in Victorian and older properties that have been split into flats. Owners don't want to destroy original features that add both charm and functionality to a house if was ever to be changed back to a single residence.
Often the door is simply locked and a wardrobe or bookcase placed in front of it, or even just left there, completely visible. As they have strong mortice locks and are very solidly made no-one would imagine their neighbour breaking in.

Thank you, Happyanne

And some of those locks are very old, also - big, clunky things, the sort that have big, old-fashioned keys - easy to pick for those determined. A few nails are hammered through the door and frame. The handle to the door is tried. Seems solid enough. Usually, the person conducting the 'renovation' isn't going to live there anyway. So near enough is good enough. Often a wardrobe or pantry is built in front of the blocked door - sometimes with plywood back, sometimes just shelving

People forget they're there. Often, they have no idea those doors are there, covered as they are with shelves or sheets of ply or behind a wardrobe

Another area of potential danger are crawl spaces above the ceiling. Few people even think of it. Often, the manhole is again - in and above a cupboard or pantry or wardrobe - sometimes in a bathroom or bedroom, etc.

 

[little_miss_smart]

Blocked off doors are very common in Victorian and older properties that have been split into flats. Owners don't want to destroy original features that add both charm and functionality to a house if was ever to be changed back to a single residence.
Often the door is simply locked and a wardrobe or bookcase placed in front of it, or even just left there, completely visible. As they have strong mortice locks and are very solidly made no-one would imagine their neighbour breaking in.

I was under the impression that these doors had to be bricked up due to fire regulations.

 

[Phillb]

I was under the impression that these doors had to be bricked up due to fire regulations.

You can see clearly on the plans the door is no more. I assumed the plans had been seen to reach the conclusion it didn't exist in any shape or form.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #8


Locked doors are also security weak points e.t.c.
Yes your quite right with the fire/building regs as well

 

[laserdisc10]

I was under the impression that these doors had to be bricked up due to fire regulations.

No doubt the facts will emerge in due time

 

[jigzy]

Cannot understand what the L/E may be searching for in the adjoining flat. Surely, knowing that someone had gone out without their belongings and shoes...they would have searched EVERY flat in that building...especially as their prime suspect had keys to every flat...but then...maybe they didn't?
__________________

I posted (many threads ago, possibly the first thread) that I felt the reason the parents knew she had been abducted was because her slippers were missing. Imo this is something that a mum might notice. I often wear chunky socks and slippers in cold weather. If I was going to walk outside for just a few steps to another door I would rather stay comfortable and remain in my chunky socks and slippers, rather than take my warm socks off to put on thinner ones which I would need to put on boots such as JY was seen wearing in Tesco. Having walked a few steps over snow I would have kicked off my damp slippers and lounged around in chunky socks.
Missing slippers would be an indicator to the parents, imo, that she had been taken rather than left of her own accord, in which case she would have worn suitable footwear.
IMO slippers are missing.

 

[otto]

You can see clearly on the plans the door is no more. I assumed the plans had been seen to reach the conclusion it didn't exist in any shape or form.

Yes your right with the fire/building regs indeed

The thing is that the plans in the news could have been recreated to avoid copyright problems (similar to what I have done) .. and the door could have simply been omitted in the news article because it wasn't considered important. It is not in the plans that we've seen, but it was mentioned somewhere ... so it could still be in place.

 

[little_miss_smart]

You can see clearly on the plans the door is no more. I assumed the plans had been seen to reach the conclusion it didn't exist in any shape or form.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #8


Locked doors are also security weak points e.t.c.
Yes your right with the fire/building regs indeed

That's what I thought. No point going down a route that's going to lead nowhere.

 

[Rossetti]

I feel that some people are over-thinking this. I will stick with the simple explanations as they are most often the right ones.

 

[little_miss_smart]

The thing is that the plans in the news could have been recreated to avoid copyright problems (similar to what I have done) .. and the door could have simply been omitted in the news article because it wasn't considered important. It is not in the plans that we've seen, but it was mentioned somewhere ... so it could still be in place.

It is in the plans

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3362152/Man-arrested-over-Jo-murder.html

But there is no way the door would have existed as a door, it would most definitely be bricked up adhering to fire and safety regulations.

 

[otto]

"The plan, dating from 1990, shows there was previously a door from Miss Yeates' bedroom to a bedroom in the adjoining flat, but it was filled in when the building was converted. There is a communal entrance at the front of the house for most of the other flats, but a second ground-floor flat also has its own front door at the rear of the property."

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/crime/Killer-got-flat-unseen/article-3111712-detail/article.html

 

[Praxis]

The image from the mail artice of the plan of JY/GR's flat is from the land registry so I take it that the connecting door has been removed and well and truly blocked up as phillb said. You would not be able to register the flat as a single residance with the land registry if it was a landlord botch conversion with door connecting. JMO

 

[Phillb]

The thing is that the plans in the news could have been recreated to avoid copyright problems (similar to what I have done) .. and the door could have simply been omitted in the news article because it wasn't considered important. It is not in the plans that we've seen, but it was mentioned somewhere ... so it could still be in place.

As has just been said. There really is no point going down a road that doesn't lead anywhere, overthinking matters e.t.c.

I'll say no more on this door. I'll just leave you with one thought.

If there was any sign of a door between those two basement flats. Locked, or with a cuboard hiding it. Then I'm pretty sure the whole Police investigation would have taken on a whole new outlook. Now draw your own conclusions if you think the connecting door was possible now.

Cheers

 

[little_miss_smart]

"The plan, dating from 1990, shows there was previously a door from Miss Yeates' bedroom to a bedroom in the adjoining flat, but it was filled in when the building was converted. There is a communal entrance at the front of the house for most of the other flats, but a second ground-floor flat also has its own front door at the rear of the property."

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/crime/Killer-got-flat-unseen/article-3111712-detail/article.html

Thank you.

As I said, the door was bricked up.

 

[bax]

This floorplan is still a bit sketchy, as the detail in the news article are a bit obscured with text ... still, it's close.


Who could have guessed that the plans would become so relevant!

Actually I have seen somewhere in internet the plans of the house 42 and originally there were more than 2 basement flats (maybe 4). JYś entrance was actually the entrance of 2 flats.

 

[ruined detroit]

Sounds like he was around, knocked on the door to have a bit of architectural goss, killed her, and dumped her. What a pointless waste.

 

[Rossetti]

I posted (many threads ago, possibly the first thread) that I felt the reason the parents knew she had been abducted was because her slippers were missing. Imo this is something that a mum might notice. ...
Missing slippers would be an indicator to the parents, imo, that she had been taken rather than left of her own accord, in which case she would have worn suitable footwear.
IMO slippers are missing.

In the case of someone living with their parents, that might be so, but for someone who had lived away for two years, I wouldn't expect parents (even mum) to know every garment. Just as new items can be bought at any time, so can they be discarded.

What I think they noticed - I posted this yesterday but no one commented - is the missing bag that has been mentioned. I don't think it was a suitcase or luggage bag - that could have been lent to someone. I think there was a bag or case for a surfboard (or a snowboard) and that is what was missing. Taken by the killer to put J's body in. I can think of no reasonable explanation for this to be missing, and its absence, when noticed, must have been ominous .

 

[moshimoshi]

Welcome to WS and the Yeates threads, moshimoshi.

Thank you .

Someone suggested that the GF of NUA is American. Both NUA and GF appear on this "Trinations Vs Uk 10k run" results page. NUA is listed as Team - Holland. GF is listed as Team - USA.
http://www.racetimingsystems.com/public/results.aspx?raceid=1157

The race was on June 13 last year. Looks like a charity event.

The Tri-Nations 10k encourages runners to represent their country, and the FATE team joined in wholeheartedly, with runners representing Russia, Afghanistan, New Zealand, Holland, Wales, Sweden, the USA and of course the UK.

http://www.thefixevents.com/content/fate-take-gold-at-the-tri-nations-v-uk-10k-run/

Actually from the above page NUA and GF might be in this picture, just right of centre. GF (if indeed it is) is wearing a "westbury harriers" vest. Someone of the same name is listed on various race results as a member of that club.

http://www.thefixevents.com/content...am-looking-fresh-before-the-race-low-res1.jpg