GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #9

[Curious Alice]

Something is bugging me in regard to DNA, or lack of it. Partial DNA has been recovered (bone fide report) and some media suggest that this was found on tummy, breasts, jeans (??? not official).

Would we not expect some DNA to be under Jo's fingernails, even taking the element of surprise into account my first reaction would be to claw someones hands away from me, if possible.

Maybe they have this, but have not released the information.

No real point to this post, but I woke up thinking about this today. Just throwong my random thoughts out there,

 

[redsky]

regarding NUA and his having a car, it was stated a few pages back that he was seen deicing a vehicle near EWs at 2am and thus police arrested him at 6am.
leads me to think he does have access to a vehicle.

 

[happyanne]

regarding NUA and his having a car, it was stated a few pages back that he was seen deicing a vehicle near EWs at 2am and thus police arrested him at 6am.
leads me to think he does have access to a vehicle.

I wonder where he was going at 2am? Strange time to de-ice as the night would only get colder,

 

[redsky]

I wonder where he was going at 2am? Strange time to de-ice as the night would only get colder,

I thought the same. I will have to find the link but it said that police thought he may have been trying to take off.

 

[brownbread]

regarding NUA and his having a car, it was stated a few pages back that he was seen deicing a vehicle near EWs at 2am and thus police arrested him at 6am.
leads me to think he does have access to a vehicle.

Are there any links to support this - I've heard it mentioned a couple of times but not seen the source of this info.

 

[MissMarple2]

Something is bugging me in regard to DNA, or lack of it. Partial DNA has been recovered (bone fide report) and some media suggest that this was found on tummy, breasts, jeans (??? not official).

Would we not expect some DNA to be under Jo's fingernails, even taking the element of surprise into account my first reaction would be to claw someones hands away from me, if possible.

Maybe they have this, but have not released the information.

No real point to this post, but I woke up thinking about this today. Just throwong my random thoughts out there,

Maybe she tried to get the attacker to release her by grabbing his/her arms, which were clothed and therefore no DNA. Or somehow used elbows to pin her arms down?

Or maybe the perp had time to clean under her nails afterward?

Must admit, the 'no signs of a struggle' puzzles me. But then, I'm assuming that these would be physical signs that couldn't be 'tidied' after the event.

I would like to know who reported the scream overheard at midnight. I was thinking that the Friday night must have been the night of many works Christmas events and was thinking that maybe TM had returned home to Canynge Rd around midnight from hers ... and something caused her to scream? However, assuming for the sake of argument or to play devil's advocate, that VT is the perp., I don't believe that TM would have knowingly covered up his involvement so I'm not going so far as to say that she saw evidence of a crime having been committed when she returned, but she may have seen scratches on his face that shocked her enough to call out? And this was what was heard? (yes, HUGE assumptions being made here, the first that the midnight scream was a reality)

Then she accepted his excuse for the scratches or for whatever scared her (even suspicions he's been unfaithful in the flat) but as JY's body was found and nobody charged for the murder, she started to have doubts? And his behaviour and these doubts caused her to contact the police?

 

[columbosstogey]

The original interior walls will be about 6 inches thick and very soundproof but as the property was converted into flats some of the interior walls may be thinner and breeze block.

With building regs and fire regulation I hardly think people could hear someone chatting in the flat next door. My friend used to live in a very modern terrace smaller then the flat and you could not hear people talking. Yes sometimes you could hear music but more the thump thump then the actual lyrics.

I live in an old terrace (I am end) and when the bloke next door starts screaming at his kids I can hear his voice (not what is said), only if I have the telly off.

Wasnt the old door anyway between the second bedroom and the bedroom of the Greg and Joannas?

God bless Joanna.x

 

[Marc D.]

Unless the body was in the ski bag in the boot all weekend and went up to Sheffield with him, then dumped as near to midnight as possible before phoning the police?

No, that would make it less probable actually. If you have a body in your car, you can get caught at any moment and you do not sleep (unless you are a totally careless and heartless guy, which GR is probably not). If he had brought the body with him on his way to Sheffield, he could have dropped it in a forest or anywhere, it would have been better than keeping it in his car, in my opinion.

Anyway, the problem was not really to drop the body before midnight in a deserted place, it can be done, but to get it out of the flat before 10 pm like he would have to do in your option. At least, in my scenario, he carries the body to his car around 11 pm, but that is still too early: one could meet neighbours who would immediately propose their help to carry this heavy bag.

I do think that the body was moved out of where it was (JY's or VT's flat, or anywhere else) at 2 or 3 am. Most people left the party on the other side of the street between 11 and 12, and one must also avoid people coming back from nightclubs. That rules GR out in my opinion.

Also, dragging that bag from JY's door to a car parked in the street in front of the house or on the other side of the house would have been too risky: on one side you are too visible, and on the other side you have to pass in front of the windows of... VT. So only VT could do that, not GR.

 

[columbosstogey]

Maybe she tried to get the attacker to release her by grabbing his/her arms, which were clothed and therefore no DNA. Or somehow used elbows to pin her arms down?

Or maybe the perp had time to clean under her nails afterward?

Must admit, the 'no signs of a struggle' puzzles me. But then, I'm assuming that these would be physical signs that couldn't be 'tidied' after the event.

I would like to know who reported the scream overheard at midnight. I was thinking that the Friday night must have been the night of many works Christmas events and was thinking that maybe TM had returned home to Canynge Rd around midnight from hers ... and something caused her to scream? However, assuming for the sake of argument or to play devil's advocate, that VT is the perp., I don't believe that TM would have knowingly covered up his involvement so I'm not going so far as to say that she saw evidence of a crime having been committed when she returned, but she may have seen scratches on his face that shocked her enough to call out? And this was what was heard? (yes, HUGE assumptions being made here, the first that the midnight scream was a reality)

Then she accepted his excuse for the scratches or for whatever scared her (even suspicions he's been unfaithful in the flat) but as JY's body was found and nobody charged for the murder, she started to have doubts? And his behaviour and these doubts caused her to contact the police?

The police eliminated Vincent Tabak and his girlfriend from their enquiries. Surely if he had scratch marks on his face or hands they would have been noticed.

No one seemed bothered about his behaviour until the appeal. Surely if someone is found dead and they live next door to you, and your partner is behaving in a weird way, wouldnt you say something to someone I know most people would, even just a friend.....He seemed fine and allegedly went on holiday, whether he got to Holland is irrelevant IF the police were at all concerned with his story surely they could have stopped him leaving the country..............on the 20th.

I find this all very odd.

 

[MissMarple2]

With building regs and fire regulation I hardly think people could hear someone chatting in the flat next door. My friend used to live in a very modern terrace smaller then the flat and you could not hear people talking. Yes sometimes you could hear music but more the thump thump then the actual lyrics.

I live in an old terrace (I am end) and when the bloke next door starts screaming at his kids I can hear his voice (not what is said), only if I have the telly off.

Wasnt the old door anyway between the second bedroom and the bedroom of the Greg and Joannas?

God bless Joanna.x

Yes - and I read on here that VT and TM shared the second bedroom.

Re: the partitioned walls ... Not convinced that building regs apply to conversions undertaken before a certain date. There would be thicker walls dividing one house from another - such as your end terrace - but within conversions, it could vary.

However, I guess it depends whether 42 and 44 were ever ONE house and who did the conversion. I lived in a converted flat in a Georgian property in that area. One large bedroom had been divided into two by a thin plasterboard wall you could hear things through .. however the wall separating the flat from the adjoining house was much thicker.

The person who used to live in VT's flat claims otherwise.

 

[MissMarple2]

The police eliminated Vincent Tabak and his girlfriend from their enquiries. Surely if he had scratch marks on his face or hands they would have been noticed.

No one seemed bothered about his behaviour until the appeal. Surely if someone is found dead and they live next door to you, and your partner is behaving in a weird way, wouldnt you say something to someone I know most people would, even just a friend.....He seemed fine and allegedly went on holiday, whether he got to Holland is irrelevant IF the police were at all concerned with his story surely they could have stopped him leaving the country..............on the 20th.

I find this all very odd.

But if he went to Holland before the body was found, there wasn't that much time for her to notice his odd behaviour (until he came back and we don't know when that was). Yes, Saturday and Sunday but there would have been no 'crime' to link odd behaviour to, at that point. He allegedly went away on the Monday and nobody knew JY was actually missing until GR reported her as such very late on the Sunday night.

Which means that TM might not have noticed odd behaviour at that time as such, because she wouldn't have known that anyone in their block had disappeared. Whereas now she does.

And if the police spoke to him by telephone (as they must have if he was out of the country), they wouldn't have noticed any scratches.

 

[goldielox]

The police eliminated Vincent Tabak and his girlfriend from their enquiries. Surely if he had scratch marks on his face or hands they would have been noticed.

No one seemed bothered about his behaviour until the appeal. Surely if someone is found dead and they live next door to you, and your partner is behaving in a weird way, wouldnt you say something to someone I know most people would, even just a friend.....He seemed fine and allegedly went on holiday, whether he got to Holland is irrelevant IF the police were at all concerned with his story surely they could have stopped him leaving the country..............on the 20th.

I find this all very odd.

Was it the 20th, or was it the 19th?

Either way, and as someone on here asked earlier, how could they rule him out then when Jo wasn't reported missing until midnight on the 19th?

 

[ruined detroit]

I met a Dutch woman in London today. I asked her on the off chance if she knew this Tabak character. She denied knowing him. Raises questions for me this denial it does.

 

[brownbread]

Maybe she tried to get the attacker to release her by grabbing his/her arms, which were clothed and therefore no DNA. Or somehow used elbows to pin her arms down?

Or maybe the perp had time to clean under her nails afterward?

Must admit, the 'no signs of a struggle' puzzles me. But then, I'm assuming that these would be physical signs that couldn't be 'tidied' after the event.

I would like to know who reported the scream overheard at midnight. I was thinking that the Friday night must have been the night of many works Christmas events and was thinking that maybe TM had returned home to Canynge Rd around midnight from hers ... and something caused her to scream? However, assuming for the sake of argument or to play devil's advocate, that VT is the perp., I don't believe that TM would have knowingly covered up his involvement so I'm not going so far as to say that she saw evidence of a crime having been committed when she returned, but she may have seen scratches on his face that shocked her enough to call out? And this was what was heard? (yes, HUGE assumptions being made here, the first that the midnight scream was a reality)

Then she accepted his excuse for the scratches or for whatever scared her (even suspicions he's been unfaithful in the flat) but as JY's body was found and nobody charged for the murder, she started to have doubts? And his behaviour and these doubts caused her to contact the police?

Ignoring the fact the midnight scream thing seems to be a bit of a red herring. It seems unlikely to me that we're dealing with a scenario in which the perpetrator was expecting his girlfriend to return at some point in the evening.

Regardless of who the perpetrator might be, my view is that 'sexual motive gone wrong' seems the most likely scenario, and it seems unlikely that anyone would be attempting this if they were expecting their girlfriend could return at any moment.

I also think the 'sexual motive gone wrong' theory can also help to explain why there was no sign of a struggle. If it is an argument or some other form of attack, we might expect there to be signs of a more violent struggle, as there would probably be more opportunity to defend yourself (unless it's a surprise attack from the rear). Whereas in a 'sexual motive gone wrong' scenario, the perp could already be in very close proximity and find it easier to kill with little opportunity for anyone to defend themselves.

 

[Praxis]

Tanja and Tabak left their one-bedroomed, ground floor flat in Canynge Road, Clifton, when police forensic teams moved in just before Christmas. The pair moved a mile away to Aberdeen Road, Cotham, to stay in a home owned by friend Emily Williams who is travelling in Chile. That is where police arrested Tabak in a dawn swoop on Thursday.

Re: NUA and access to a car, seems the couple were together, despite the news articles saying they broke up before Christmas. TM's father confirmed they were still a couple. Message from NUA to Dutch friend new years eve was sent jointly from NUA and TM. They would have shared a car then so I presume TM's car has been examined by dogs/forensics. JMO

 

[whodathoughtit]

I guess I would make a hopeless detective as when I look at GR all I see is a man who has lost the woman he loved in tragic circumstances and must be going through absolute, utter hell.

Perhaps I'm just letting my heart rule my head, but even if I try to take a cold dispassionate look at the available evidence, I still don't see it. The chain of events that we would have to believe took place in order for GR to be in the frame seem so implausible that there simply must be a more probable explanation.

I know everyone just wants to see this resolved and justice for Jo and her family, but it's horrible read some of the speculation about someone who assuming he is innocent must be one of the most horribly affected by this whole thing.

Well said! I'm horrified by some of the comments on here regarding GR.

 

[whiterum]

I wonder where he was going at 2am? Strange time to de-ice as the night would only get colder,

When did his friend come back from Chile, he could have been preparing the car to collect her from the airport.

 

[ruined detroit]

To me GR came over as odd, the whole scenario as odd: the going away, JY's first weekend alone in the flat, the crowed closeness and lack of contact explained by JY not using her phone yet evidence showing she used it quite a bit on the 17th, the 4 hrs delay on Sunday night, the crap crying in the press conferences, his justgiving site to raise money, the fact he was never fully ruled out as a suspect, and the fact he had opportunity. Of course folk will get stuck in to GR. It is usually the BF, the defacto, the husband, the pervy uncle.

 

[Marc D.]

When did his friend come back from Chile, he could have been preparing the car to collect her from the airport.

It seems that she (EW) was in Chile when he was arrested and is still there.

 

[Slewth]

Struggling to keep with everything after the recent dramatic turn of events!

It does seem incredible that anyone could have been eliminated at the outset, based on just a phone call with the police, as has been suggested. Can you imagine the conversation: “Do you have any scratch marks on your face, sir?” “Nope”. “OK, that’s fine. Sorry to trouble you, sir”……… Hmmm….

Anyway, whilst we await further developments, a thought about the gossipy neighbour who appears to have got CJ into trouble by gossiping to the police about what he did or didn’t see. I agree with others on here that only what is said DIRECTLY to the police should be relevant. Typically-exaggerated gossip between neighbours is irrelevant.

If CJ did see several people at the front of 44 - and it’s hard to believe that, at such close range, he just imagined it all, and saw no one at all - he would surely have known whether that group included a familiar figure as tall as 6 foot 4 (and even taller in clogs!). I know, for example, that I can tell my average-looking neighbour in poor light 200 yards off from just his gait and mannerisms.

But you can quite understand why CJ wouldn't want to be too specific - about who he thought he saw - to his gossipy neighbour, and would want to save it all for the police. Apart from anything else, perhaps he could see it finishing up as a headline in the Sun: “CJ FINGERS CLOGGIE”. Perish the thought!