GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

[Irishguy]

You know what, I had a feeling that Karen never went to this pig's flat, I think he followed her and attacked her. Didn't the reports say that the cctv that showed them walking away from the nightclub seperately but in the same direction ?...

I remember that earlier in the week they reported that CCTV showed them leaving the club but walking separately later on the road, I still believe that she may not have went to the flat at all and if she did it wasnt voluntary.

 

[Clio]

It didn't make any sense at the time, why would this be made public, it could offer no help or assistance in helping finding Karen it puzzled me. It was the totally unsubstantiated statement of a potential suspect. Yet while Police were telling the media that AP was not a suspect it seems they impounded his car on Monday evening. So it appears they were telling the media different things to what they were thinking privately.

Hi and Welcome.

BIB Well not exactly. The police said that he was not a suspect, at this stage. The media kept leaving those important words out of their reports.

 

[Alyce]

I'm going to be dragged away soon but just noticed the hearing is private so I wouldn't be able to update with media tweets anyhow. How will the public know what was said if media are barred? Will the PF make a statement after?

I seem to remember it was similar in the case of Mikaeel Kular ( Scotland ) - no media allowed and a short statement issued following the hearing.

 

[Alyce]

The fact they have a knife makes Karen's death seem a lot more violent than I first imagined. I was thinking along the lines of an accident and then panicking or he's got carried away while they were intimate but no weapons used.

Me too - I thought it was a situation that got out of hand - a knife makes it sound possibly pre meditated

 

[Finkleyalex]

He strikes me as one of those types in bars and clubs to try and sell drugs. I wonder if he'd taken anything himself that night (cocaine?) and being a dealer happened to have a knife on him for 'protection'. I wonder if he experienced extreme paranoia and that made him attack K? Like everyone else, I always saw this as a rape gone wrong - now a weapon may be involved my whole view on his motive has shifted somewhat.

 

[Alyce]

Just jumping off your post alreetlike, the article said Karen's friends suspected she may have had her drink spiked, maybe they were wise enough to keep her glass aside?

Makes sense - otherwise surely the glasses would have been collected and washed - and how would staff know which one was Karen's

 

[MissyLDT]

Going back a couple of pages - is it possible that the owner of the other business registered to the address is the flatmate? But rather being flat mates in the terms it would normally be thought of AP was more of a lodger?

Sorry if this isn't allowed.

 

[Alyce]

Long time observer here new poster, Ive travelled the world and lived in Glasgow for a year and I also have a sister of a similar age to Karen who is also a nurse travelling the world. So this case has struck a cord with me and a lot of other people, another young Irish woman being murdered out foreign like Nicola Furlong, Michaela Harte and Jill Meagher.The case of Karen is so sad, seems that she had the misfortune to bump into a horrific monster. I see this mornings papers showing a picture of what looks to be a kitchen knife being pulled from a canal near AP home. RIP Karen may your gentle soul rest in peace.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/karen-buckley-death-police-pull-5534051

Welcome aboard :wagon:

 

[Clio]

Just jumping off your post alreetlike, the article said Karen's friends suspected she may have had her drink spiked, maybe they were wise enough to keep her glass aside?

Her friends apparently started searching for her after 15 minutes so it's not impossible.

http://www.evoke.ie/news/karen-buckley-death-gone-for-15-minutes/

 

[Giraffe]

Hi and Welcome.

BIB Well not exactly. The police said that he was not a suspect, at this stage. The media kept leaving those important words out of their reports.

Yes I thought it was very clear at that stage that he was being considered as a suspect. Especially when you compare it with the Mikaeel Kular case where the police kept saying the mother was co operating with enquiries, then arrested her. Plus they were emphasising the silver/grey car seen driving erratically, and saying that AP drove a grey car.

I just hope they ran the statement about Karen being consensually intimate with AP by her parents before they announced it. It seems to me that here in Dublin that people picked up on that element and it coloured their view of the case. When I was talking about it with my mum she said something like 'Well she made herself vulnerable by going home with someone she didn't know'. It really bugs me that this is one of the details that people will remember about the case and yet it seems likely that the reality of what happened is far removed from anything approaching consensual interaction, of any type, AND that the police suspected this even when they said it.

I'm sure they had a good reason to say what they did and it will all come out eventually. But I feel like people are still believing that statement even now, and that really bothers me. MOO.

 

[suzyjackson]

Just jumping off your post alreetlike, the article said Karen's friends suspected she may have had her drink spiked, maybe they were wise enough to keep her glass aside?

My days of going out to clubs are behind me now but is it really so unsafe that if your friend slips off for an hour you'd keep hold of her glass in case her drink had been spiked?

I'm taking that report with a pinch of salt, the logistics of the police being able to get hold of the glass seem too unlikely to me

JMO

 

[suzyjackson]

As for them being intimate that is unsubstantiated and we only have the word of the accused on that, I think the details about the accused statements saying that they were intimate should not have been made available to the media, that is my opinion. It is the only blemish on an otherwise exemplary investigation by the Glasgow Police.

ITA.

I wonder of the police knew at the time they made that statement that she was already dead, if not why would they make that public when she could have appeared at any minute. If it was true she might have been embarrassed and gone to ground for a while, she might have just wanted some time away for any reason. If they knew or strongly suspected she wasn't coming back then it was totally unnecessary too, it must make it even harder for her family for Karen's sexual habits to be discussed in public.

A blemish indeed

 

[still-searching]

Yes I thought it was very clear at that stage that he was being considered as a suspect. Especially when you compare it with the Mikaeel Kular case where the police kept saying the mother was co operating with enquiries, then arrested her. Plus they were emphasising the silver/grey car seen driving erratically, and saying that AP drove a grey car.

I just hope they ran the statement about Karen being consensually intimate with AP by her parents before they announced it. It seems to me that here in Dublin that people picked up on that element and it coloured their view of the case. When I was talking about it with my mum she said something like 'Well she made herself vulnerable by going home with someone she didn't know'. It really bugs me that this is one of the details that people will remember about the case and yet it seems likely that the reality of what happened is far removed from anything approaching consensual interaction, of any type, AND that the police suspected this even when they said it.

I'm sure they had a good reason to say what they did and it will all come out eventually. But I feel like people are still believing that statement even now, and that really bothers me. MOO.

I agree.

As someone who also moved from Ireland to Glasgow, many if not most Scottish people would see nothing wrong with a girl having a one night stand/casual sex, whereas in Ireland that is still extremely taboo to many.
My 24 year old cousins are still not even allowed to share a room with their long term girlfriends at my Aunt's house, for example.

 

[PS8800]

Have seen others ( elsewhere ) saying the same thing.... plus a very expensive lawyer

Can I see a link regarding lawyer? Cannot find anything regarding this. TIA

 

[suzyjackson]

Her friends apparently started searching for her after 15 minutes so it's not impossible.

http://www.evoke.ie/news/karen-buckley-death-gone-for-15-minutes/

That's an interesting article, I'm not familiar with Irish publications, is that MSM?

The fact that they would worry after 15 minutes makes we think that maybe they had a reason to fear that something might have happened to her. Surely on a Saturday night in a club the queue for the ladies toilets could easily be longer than that and she could have bumped into another friend and stopped for a chat.

Could she have had trouble with AP in the past and her friends knew he was around that night and were concerned immediately?

 

[suzyjackson]

I agree.

As someone who also moved from Ireland to Glasgow, many if not most Scottish people would see nothing wrong with a girl having a one night stand/casual sex, whereas in Ireland that is still extremely taboo to many.
My 24 year old cousins are still not even allowed to share a room with their long term girlfriends at my Aunt's house, for example.

That's exactly what I was thinking but I didn't want to stereotype Irish parents

 

[Giraffe]

That's an interesting article, I'm not familiar with Irish publications, is that MSM?

I would consider it to be MSM, it's owned by the Daily Mail. Which does not say much for it's accuracy but still MSM

 

[Cherwell]

My days of going out to clubs are behind me now but is it really so unsafe that if your friend slips off for an hour you'd keep hold of her glass in case her drink had been spiked?

I'm taking that report with a pinch of salt, the logistics of the police being able to get hold of the glass seem too unlikely to me

She might have handed her glass to one of the others to hold until she came back from the toilet. I've read somewhere that the club was very busy, so if they weren't seated at a table they would have been holding their drinks.

 

[cluciano63]

He may not have been carrying a knife, but took it from his apartment.
Imo she may have gone with him willingly at first but quickly changed her mind...and then he got violent.

 

[Cherwell]

Me too - I thought it was a situation that got out of hand - a knife makes it sound possibly pre meditated

If she did end up at his flat - and we don't yet know if that was the case - but if he assaulted her there, it's possible that she herself grabbed a knife from the kitchen to defend herself, and he got it off her and ended up fatally wounding her. Something like that, perhaps.