GUILTY UK - Kayleigh Haywood, 15, Ibstock, Leicestershire, 13 Nov 2015 - #2

[sar2them1984]

I went to a mixed school so possibly different as we had "access" to more males our own age. At 15 I fancied 15-18 year olds but there were a couple of girls that age that had boyfriends that were 20/21. Anything over that, even back then (80s) would have been thought of as weird. Once in 6th form, so aged 16/17, I remember one girl, having a boyfriend who was 30 and we all thought that was really strange... strange that she could fancy somebody that old.


So... yes a 27 year old and a 15 year old to me is weird. She looks and came across in her facebook posts as quite immature to me, her spelling for example came across like that of a much younger child and I actually wondered if she had a learning disability, though this has never been reported or confirmed so don't think she did. His family say he was like a big kid too so maybe they were at the same maturity level. I do remember reading something a while ago that said men in their twenties now were at the same mental age as teenage girls. Once she was 16 I'd still find it weird and by then it would be perfectly legal.


So yes I find it weird but not on the same level of men who have sex with pre pubescent children.

ETA and yes I took risks as a teen too, told little white lies about where I was staying and what I was doing. I think most people will appreciate that Kayleigh was just being a teen and was incredibly unlucky, bless her.

See I was 16 when I got with my eldest daughters father (we're not together anymore) and he was 26 so perhaps that's why the age thing isn't really an issue for me

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[Alyce]

I am picking this up in the Google info - the bit about the bail application that will be made at the Crown Court hearing
but when I click on the article there is no mention of it.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/.../kayleigh-haywood-man-in-court-ch...3 hours ago - A man has appeared in court charged with the rape and murder of ... Stephen Beadman, 28, wore a grey jumper and trousers in the dock and is ... A bail application for Beadman will be heard at Leicester Crown Court on ...

 

[YidArmyRach]

Shades of the Ched Evans case ( footballer charged with rape, friend found not guilty with same person, same night )

I've been following that case and read all the evidence available. The victim claims she can't remember if she gave consent or not, and didn't actually go to the police claiming to have been raped. She went to the police as she had lost her handbag. It was them who took on the rape case. Both men claimed she gave consent (and interestingly, the hotel porter listened outside of the door and said he could hear people having sex, but didn't hear anything that gave him concern). I think, if I am remembering correctly, Ched Evans was found guilty because even if consent is given, when a woman is very drunk she is deemed to be incapable of giving consent - even if she said yes. The first man was found not guilty because she had accompanied him to the hotel in a cab, so it was considered that he believed he had consent. Evans turned up afterwards and asked to join in.

 

[RainbowSkies]

Interesting points raised in the last few posts. For all we know the relationship between Kayleigh and Luke could have been a blossoming love story. I snuck off for nights on the town with friends when I was that age, I was forever telling little fibs so I could do mildly naughty stuff - vodka in the park, cigs in the bus stop, snogging boys, changing into shorter skirts lol! Never stayed over with anyone though, wouldn't have dared.

But Kayleigh (and maybe LH) might have thought there was a real thing going on, he'd told his family about her, maybe he saw her as potential girlfriend, maybe they had met up in real life already. We really need to get more information before we condemn him a paedo.

I'm sitting on my hands with this one.

This is similar to how I have been thinking.

If it wasn't for what SB was charged for... then perhaps it may have carried on for a while or maybe stopped when one of them realised it was against the law/not morally right. Perhaps in his mind it was innocent or OK. (Especially if he believed she was older).

Because of his charges he is being seen as a sick peado in the community and on FB. However, I do wonder if he'd have faced charge if it wasn't for the terrible thing that happened to her after. I am not saying that LHs actions were no less wrong - I am just wondering if it was a bit of a mistake on his part that he and her would probably regret in a few years time (most of us have stories of dating or encounters with older men. Of course, still not OK, but not uncommon).

Obviously if the charges are correct then he should face the consequences, but I do wonder if his charges sound a lot worse due to the nature of SBs charges and what happened to poor Kayleigh.

 

[skibaboo]

I am picking this up in the Google info - the bit about the bail application that will be made at the Crown Court hearing
but when I click on the article there is no mention of it.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/.../kayleigh-haywood-man-in-court-ch...3 hours ago - A man has appeared in court charged with the rape and murder of ... Stephen Beadman, 28, wore a grey jumper and trousers in the dock and is ... A bail application for Beadman will be heard at Leicester Crown Court on ...

I was just wondering about that because I've only seen this stated

Neither defendant applied for bail and both were remanded into custody. Mirror

His solicitor Imogen Cox made no application for bail. (Re SB) Leicester Mercury

Neither man applied for bail. Daily Mail

 

[sar2them1984]

Rainbowskies post

^^this completely ^^

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[Edinlass]

Wow, granted when I was 15 I was engaging in sexual relations with my then boyfriend the SAME age. Possibly even lying to my parents about under age drinking etc.

Kayleigh was groomed online by a 27 year old MAN, I think it's direspectful to her family to be saying it's some kind of love story. Sorry, I have a daughter and I just find it appalling that LH is becoming some kind of victim.

 

[Cherwell]

I recognise that I may be in a minority, possibly a minority of 1, but I am not seeing this through the same lenses as I see others here are.

I won't quote the whole post, Tortoise, but I'm another that agrees with what you've said.

Paedophiles, in my opinion, are not just people who find under-16s attractive. You can't tell who's 15 or 14 or 16 when they are dressed up to the nines and trying to impress. Paedophiles - in MY opinion - are people who find children, who LOOK like children, attractive sexually. They wouldn't want a girl who looked 19 or 23, as that is not a child. If LH did find out that Kayleigh was 15 then he should've walked away, no question.

Absolutely right. Paedophiles are attracted to pre-pubescent children. Sadly the word is so consistently misused that it's almost lost its true meaning.

It's completely natural for males to be attracted to post-pubescent teenage girls - that's what Nature intended, and it's not creepy. But there are social and legal boundaries in place to protect young people, hence the need to tread carefully. The fact that the age of consent varies between countries (and sometimes even within a country) shows what a grey area this is.

 

[YidArmyRach]

See I was 16 when I got with my eldest daughters father (we're not together anymore) and he was 26 so perhaps that's why the age thing isn't really an issue for me

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I agree with Tortoises post regarding the 'relationship' beween LH and Kayleigh. If he was immature, a loaner and very inexperienced, then perhaps he felt he could only connect with people her age. Not saying it is right, but it might not be as sinister as first appeared.

I got with my first long-term partner when I was 18 and he was 30, and both my eldest sons have always dated girls who are younger than them - eldest is 21 gf is 18, and next one down is 19 and gf is 16. Both girls are far more mature than the 'boys' - and, interestingly, their parents have always allowed them to come here and sleep over (not sure I would have agreed if I had daughters to be honest). In fact, my eldest used to be invited to stay the night at his girlfriend's parents house when she was 15 which was very awkward for me. They've been together since she was 12 and he was 15, so I guess it really was true love all those years back.

It is a thorny issue though, as the law is the law. But thinking back to the male teacher who ran off to France with his 15 year old pupil - I got the impression that more of the public thought it was a Romeo & Juliet type story, than a sex offender grooming a teenager.

 

[RainbowSkies]

Wow, granted when I was 15 I was engaging in sexual relations with my then boyfriend the SAME age.

Kayleigh was groomed online by a 27 year old MAN, I think it's direspectful to her family to be saying it's some kind of love story. Sorry, I have a daughter and I just find it appalling that LH is becoming some kind of victim.

Please don't think I was standing up for him. I was just trying to give another view point. I definitely think what he has done is wrong! I am just saying that without the awful outcome would it have been brought to light / seemed as severe.

I have a lot of mutual friends on Facebook and the reaction to LH on Facebook and he is receiving death threats etc. I imagine made worse because of the tragic outcome (which he wasn't charged for).

He should obviously be punished for his crimes and what he did was wrong.

 

[Alyce]

I've been following that case and read all the evidence available. The victim claims she can't remember if she gave consent or not, and didn't actually go to the police claiming to have been raped. She went to the police as she had lost her handbag. It was them who took on the rape case. Both men claimed she gave consent (and interestingly, the hotel porter listened outside of the door and said he could hear people having sex, but didn't hear anything that gave him concern). I think, if I am remembering correctly, Ched Evans was found guilty because even if consent is given, when a woman is very drunk she is deemed to be incapable of giving consent - even if she said yes. The first man was found not guilty because she had accompanied him to the hotel in a cab, so it was considered that he believed he had consent. Evans turned up afterwards and asked to join in.

Me too, re following the case. I agree, the deciding factor was that the girl was seen to go willingly with the friend to the hotel..... but was, as you say, deemed incapable of consenting to CE, due to the amount of alcohol she had consumed.
I feel extremely sorry for her because she didn't even bring the charge of rape and her life has turned into a nightmare because of the police deciding to prosecute.

 

[Alyce]

I was just wondering about that because I've only seen this stated

Neither defendant applied for bail and both were remanded into custody. Mirror

His solicitor Imogen Cox made no application for bail. (Re SB) Leicester Mercury

Neither man applied for bail. Daily Mail

I know. I couldnt find any other source that was talking about SB applying for bail. They were all saying no applications were made and in fact one publication ( which shall remain nameless ! ) even said that LH was told that bail was being opposed for him, for his own safety.


ETA I wonder if some reporter got mixed up re bail . Must admit when I saw the original post on the previous thread ( quoted from a genuine source ) I was thinking what a complete arrogant piece of ***** that SB must be, to think he could get bail when on a murder charge.
So am inclined to think it was just a reporting error.

 

[ColourPurple]

I agree with Tortoises post regarding the 'relationship' beween LH and Kayleigh. If he was immature, a loaner and very inexperienced, then perhaps he felt he could only connect with people her age. Not saying it is right, but it might not be as sinister as first appeared.

I got with my first long-term partner when I was 18 and he was 30, and both my eldest sons have always dated girls who are younger than them - eldest is 21 gf is 18, and next one down is 19 and gf is 16. Both girls are far more mature than the 'boys' - and, interestingly, their parents have always allowed them to come here and sleep over (not sure I would have agreed if I had daughters to be honest). In fact, my eldest used to be invited to stay the night at his girlfriend's parents house when she was 15 which was very awkward for me. They've been together since she was 12 and he was 15, so I guess it really was true love all those years back.

It is a thorny issue though, as the law is the law. But thinking back to the male teacher who ran off to France with his 15 year old pupil - I got the impression that more of the public thought it was a Romeo & Juliet type story, than a sex offender grooming a teenager.

Really? I thought that was sick on his part, as not only was she underage but he was her teacher and parents need to feel that their children are safe at school.

 

[Unique]

I am picking this up in the Google info - the bit about the bail application that will be made at the Crown Court hearing
but when I click on the article there is no mention of it.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/.../kayleigh-haywood-man-in-court-ch...3 hours ago - A man has appeared in court charged with the rape and murder of ... Stephen Beadman, 28, wore a grey jumper and trousers in the dock and is ... A bail application for Beadman will be heard at Leicester Crown Court on ...

A bail application for Beadman will be heard at Leicester Crown Court on Friday morning. No application for bail was made for Harlow.

cache

 

[skibaboo]

LeicestershirePoliceVerified account ‏@leicspolice 46s46 seconds ago
A thank you to the communities of north west Leicestershire for their support during the search for Kayleigh Haywood

[video=youtube;jyIy8InBKDs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=79&v=jyIy8InBKDs[/video]

https://twitter.com/leicspolice

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Wow, granted when I was 15 I was engaging in sexual relations with my then boyfriend the SAME age. Possibly even lying to my parents about under age drinking etc.

Kayleigh was groomed online by a 27 year old MAN, I think it's direspectful to her family to be saying it's some kind of love story. Sorry, I have a daughter and I just find it appalling that LH is becoming some kind of victim.

Nobody's being disrespectful and yes the age gap is too big. However, I am trying to say people (not here) shouldn't be calling for his b*lls to be cut off before we know what the nature of their relationship was and if Kayleigh was happy to be with him. Seemingly she spent Friday night with him and contacted her parents the following morning. If that was a phone call made of her own volition, and all was well with her world, I don't think he should be getting slammed as a paedo just yet. That scenario is not the same as lusting after primary school kids.

It could just be that old Luke needs to be added to the The Stupid List along with the 4 fools from Becky's case

 

[YidArmyRach]

Really? I thought that was sick on his part, as not only was she underage but he was her teacher and parents need to feel that their children are safe at school.

I just meant from social media comments, there was a lot of support for him/them - I wasn't saying it was my personal opinion (if that is how my post read!). Even the Daily Fail were showing hundreds and hundreds of green arrows on posts saying that he didn't deserve prison. There were, of course, hundreds calling him a paedo too, but it wouldn't be the Daily Fail without the pitchfork mob and those who can't grasp the proper meaning of that word!

 

[suzyjackson]

I see there are two new local posters - welcome both.

From what you've posted you are more local to Ibstock than me, I'm more familiar with the other places involved. Maybe this area is different to where other UK posters live but ime eveyone tends to know everyone and is they didn't go to school with them they know someone who worked with their mother etc - you get my drift.

From these kind of connections I've been told other the last couple of days (and I can't prove this so MOO etc) that SB lived fairly recently in Belton which would explain why he might have returned there to hide things or get rid of evidence and I've also heard that all 3 were seen together over the weekend (I don't know which day) somewhere that hasn't been mentioned so far and that Kayeigh didn't appear to be with them under duress.

If this isn't allowed please delete Admin.

Also just to clarify and I think someone else has mentioned this above it's common for schools to be called colleges here and the Ibstock college only goes to age 14, being dropped off outside one to meet a friend isn't the slightest bit odd imo, it's just a convienient spot for a parent to drop off a child I really wouldn't read anything into that location at all.

 

[ColourPurple]

I just meant from social media comments, there was a lot of support for him/them - I wasn't saying it was my personal opinion (if that is how my post read!). Even the Daily Fail were showing hundreds and hundreds of green arrows on posts saying that he didn't deserve prison. There were, of course, hundreds calling him a paedo too, but it wouldn't be the Daily Fail without the pitchfork mob and those who can't grasp the proper meaning of that word!

Oh god no , I didn't think it was your opinion. I was just surprised he was getting any support at all.

 

[RainbowSkies]

I see there are two new local posters - welcome both.

From what you've posted you are more local to Ibstock than me, I'm more familiar with the other places involved. Maybe this area is different to where other UK posters live but ime eveyone tends to know everyone and is they didn't go to school with them they know someone who worked with their mother etc - you get my drift.

Thanks for the welcome. Yes I am very local. I don't live in Ibstock, but very close. I know Sense Valley very well. Walk the dogs there quite often (although not on the weekend in question).

I am also of similar age to SB and LH so went to school with them. Like you say, everyone knows eveyone. Especially someone like LH who was very social.

Perhaps my local knowledge can help with Sleuthing