GUILTY UK - Kayleigh Haywood, 15, Ibstock, Leicestershire, 13 November 2015 - #1

[RainbowSkies]

Yep that also allows us to ask you questions without you having to find links to back up all your answers

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Thank you. I'd like to be able to help in anyway. I do have local knowledge. Just very new so unsure how to get this verified. Will look at the FAQs on my lunch to see if I can find out there.

 

[Tortoise]

I hope we get answers. If they both plead guilty (say) would there be an evidence led trial?

 

[sleuth-d-]

It seems then that the reports of the phone being found on the Saturday are false. Unless LH had gone by then and she was held captive by SB overnight. But then there is no charge for false imprisonment. So its a circle of mystery.

I think I go with the phone being found after the Saturday and Kayleigh willingly staying an extra night.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/missing-kayleigh-haywoods-mobile-phone-6846967

says the phone was found on the 17th am...

 

[Cherwell]

I know it's perhaps pedantic, but if SB is being accused of murdering KH on the 15th then surely LH's charges should be "...between 12th and 15th" ? As they don't believe she was alive on the 16th?

No. This often comes up.

They always express the dates by specifying the day before and the day after. Thus the defined period is the day(s) between those dates.

Think of the dates as brackets ( event )

 

[Tortoise]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/missing-kayleigh-haywoods-mobile-phone-6846967

says the phone was found on the 17th am...

I know, conflicting reports, as usual. I've also seen the Saturday quoted in MSM as the day it was found.

 

[jessie]

No. This often comes up.

They always express the dates by specifying the day before and the day after. Thus the defined period is the day(s) between those dates.

Makes sense of course, thanks. As they were arrested on Monday 16th very unlikely anything happened that day.

 

[Alyce]

I'm curious about these back to back houses being occupied by two friends. None of the neighbours said anything about LH living in the other house, did they? IIRC it was all about SB.

Was the other house vacant? Did LH use it for the night and pretend it was his? Was he really just temporarily lodging with SB? Was LH able to afford a place of his own?

Far as I can see from the pics ( will try and find a photo link )
Number 7 ( pale green door ) is on the corner of the block
Next to that is Number 6 ( another pale green door )
then there is another door, cant see the number on that one
and then there is Number 5, SBs house ( the dark blue door ) at the other end of that short block.

It is strange that no neighbours have mentioned LH living at Number 7, but he has been described as a neighbour of SB and he has given an Ibstock address which he couldnt do unless it was genuine.

Unless of course MSM have got it wrong ( very possible ) and LH was actually staying as an official tenant of SBs at Number 5.

 

[sleuth-d-]

maybe the range of dates is a legal thing intended to encompass the dates the offences occurred (pending the coroner's report?) and not necessarily indicating that activity actually happened on the 16th? grooming on Nov 13th would presumably be the date he first encouraged her to meet him, so 12th might again be one day wide for legal purposes. I'm not experienced in legal matters but it would seem reasonable to have a period of time within which the offences occurred.

that makes sense, but with that in mind, the murder charge date is very specific.

 

[Alyce]

maybe the range of dates is a legal thing intended to encompass the dates the offences occurred (pending the coroner's report?) and not necessarily indicating that activity actually happened on the 16th? grooming on Nov 13th would presumably be the date he first encouraged her to meet him, so 12th might again be one day wide for legal purposes. I'm not experienced in legal matters but it would seem reasonable to have a period of time within which the offences occurred.

Yes, I think this often happens, where the charges cover a wider range of dates than the actual events. Just seemed a bit odd, given that they have been very specific about the day that Kayleigh was murdered.

And :welcome6:

 

[Alyce]

I hope we get answers. If they both plead guilty (say) would there be an evidence led trial?

There wont be a trial if they both plead guilty. However, the Judge's sentencing remarks are often very detailed and should fill in all the missing parts for us.

 

[Alyce]

Most of this is what has already been reported in other msm, but there is a line about the grooming charge - highlighted below.

Luke Harlow faces two counts of sexual activity with a child and it is understood the grooming charge is internet related.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-34878942

 

[RainbowSkies]

BBC reporting that no plea has been made and that SB will be applying for bail this afternoon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leicestershire-34814954

 

[Tortoise]

There wont be a trial if they both plead guilty. However, the Judge's sentencing remarks are often very detailed and should fill in all the missing parts for us.

For the police to say with certainty what date Kayleigh was raped and killed, and not put it between a range of dates, I think LH must have seen her alive on the Sunday or SB has admitted it.

 

[Tortoise]

BBC reporting that no plea has been made and that SB will be applying for bail this afternoon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leicestershire-34814954

I'm gobsmacked. He wants bail? It will be refused for his own protection.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Far as I can see from the pics ( will try and find a photo link )
Number 7 ( pale green door ) is on the corner of the block
Next to that is Number 6 ( another pale green door )
then there is another door, cant see the number on that one
and then there is Number 5, SBs house ( the dark blue door ) at the other end of that short block.

It is strange that no neighbours have mentioned LH living at Number 7, but he has been described as a neighbour of SB and he has given an Ibstock address which he couldnt do unless it was genuine.

Unless of course MSM have got it wrong ( very possible ) and LH was actually staying as an official tenant of SBs at Number 7.

number 5 and number 7 are back to back... the estate aerial image shows the position of - and relationship between - the two houses in relation to the avenue layout, and their proximity to the park.
very secluded... i.e. right at the edge of the development, and the van could be reversed right up to the front door of either.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-kayleigh-haywood-murder-suspect-6862969

 

[skibaboo]

Morning people

:welcome: RaibowSkies and artypie

SB is applying for bail? Good luck with that. What about LH? I expect he will receive bail if applied for

 

[Alyce]

I'm gobsmacked. He wants bail? It will be refused for his own protection.

Am equally stunned !!

 

[Alyce]

number 5 and number 7 are back to back... the estate aerial image shows the position of - and relationship between - the two houses in relation to the avenue layout, and their proximity to the park.
very secluded... i.e. right at the edge of the development, and the van could be reversed right up to the front door of either.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-kayleigh-haywood-murder-suspect-6862969

Thanks Sleuth-D _ I must have been looking at a different house number - very secluded indeed for the van...

 

[Alyce]

Morning people

:welcome: RaibowSkies and artypie

SB is applying for bail? Good luck with that. What about LH? I expect he will receive bail if applied for

Mornin Skibaboo

Would have thought, with the current charges against LH, that he could get bail. Although he might be safer to stay where he is.

 

[RainbowSkies]

Morning people

:welcome: RaibowSkies and artypie

SB is applying for bail? Good luck with that. What about LH? I expect he will receive bail if applied for

Morning and thank you for the welcome

LH possibly a good idea not to apply for bail. Judging by Facebook posts I am not sure he'll be very safe. Also could affect family as they said they were scared to leave house in an article.

Very suprised that SB will apply for bail though.