Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #2

[Jenesaisquoi]

Thanks Oraclle. I have not found that thread before.

I am wondering even more about the police lack of updates. I know that are some highly experienced people working there (I googled it) but I always find it difficult when people ask for info and then you don’t hear anything else. I hope someone tells the public when she is found. Or will the missing posters and banners disappear and we draw our own conclusions.

 

[cluciano63]

If police were concerned about identifying that video guy, they would say so. It is not even from the day she went missing. He is just a man walking as far as I can tell, just like she is. He may have called in himself. Jmo

 

[Mayfly]

Tracksuits are the go-to attire for many young men. I'm afraid a grey Addidas tracky is not much help in identifying a suspect.

The guy behind Leah on the Heart MK CCTV is in dark blue tracksuit bottoms (might be Addidas, there is a white stripe) and a dark jacket of some kind. I wonder why no other news outlet has picked up the video?

There is a Reddit thread where a supposed Police insider shares some views on Leah's case and is specifically asked about the man in the CCTV.

Can you send me a link too, please Oraclle?

 

[cherrytree9]

Much is made of "Big Brother" in England, but the reality is that most of it is in the capital. The cameras I see where I live are mostly around shops and petrol stations. You'll get the occasional old boy with nothing better to do who has set one up, but that's about it in suburbia.

When it comes to urban areas, I'd say there's still a large amount of CCTV outside London. Local councils usually have quite a few cameras covering public areas, and as well as shops and petrol stations there's CCTV on public transport (including the outside of buses), road crossings, businesses, carparks and dashcams. Home CCTV isn't extremely common but it's pretty common in areas I've lived in, though these have been places with higher crime rates.

If I was in England, I would assume I was always on CCTV, unless maybe in a very small village

I'm from the UK and I think your post is very accurate Cameras aren't always obvious, and in most urban areas I think you'd be silly to assume that a specific location would be free from CCTV, because you never know.

 

[Atoz]

I would say that in residential areas there's not that much covered by CCTV.

ANPR tends to be on main roads in and out of towns and cities, not residential areas.

Council CCTV tends to be put in areas of heavy footfall or congregation, such as high streets and shopping areas.

You're pretty much relying on the luck of a dash cam or the personal CCTV of a household, which in my experience would probably be 1/15 houses at best and as far as I know you're not really supposed to film beyond you're own garden anyway.

So I would say there's huge swathes of her route that wouldn't be covered. The police can probably guess the rough area she disappeared from and that it was almost certainly into a vehicle or someone's home.

 

[cherrytree9]

So I would say there's huge swathes of her route that wouldn't be covered. The police can probably guess the rough area she disappeared from and that it was almost certainly into a vehicle or someone's home.

Yes you're definitely right that there's not as much in residential areas and there's obviously not a lot on her route. From what I remember, police said she didn't arrive on a specific street (presumably the next known camera location) and it's quite a distance from her last confirmed sighting.

But I was more referring to the theory that she/someone deliberately found a spot where she could disappear off CCTV. Even in purely residential areas, there aren't that many places that you can 100% confidently say have no home cameras, no buses coming past or cars that might have dashcam, especially at a time people are going to work and school. That's not to say those places don't exist, but there's always a risk you'd be on camera. (For the record, though, I'm not saying I think she did this.)

 

[Atoz]

Yes you're definitely right that there's not as much in residential areas and there's obviously not a lot on her route. From what I remember, police said she didn't arrive on a specific street (presumably the next known camera location) and it's quite a distance from her last confirmed sighting.

But I was more referring to the theory that she/someone deliberately found a spot where she could disappear off CCTV. Even in purely residential areas, there aren't that many places that you can 100% confidently say have no home cameras, no buses coming past or cars that might have dashcam, especially at a time people are going to work and school. That's not to say those places don't exist, but there's always a risk you'd be on camera. (For the record, though, I'm not saying I think she did this.)

I think you might be right that someone could have been mindful of CCTV if it was an abduction. If it were a grab off the street, then the car park where Furzton Sports Ground would be a good spot. It has cover of some trees and access to the path that goes up round the top of the lake.

However, if someone known to Leah pulled up anywhere on her route and she voluntarily got in, then no one would bat an eyelid, most people won't have checked their dash cams if they didn't recall seeing anything out of the ordinary that morning and as we've discussed, CCTV would be limited and often not focused on vehicles.

Personally I'd say 10% she entered a building, 30% chance she entered a vehicle by force and 60% chance she entered a vehicle voluntarily.

 

[Plod]

I think you might be right that someone could have been mindful of CCTV if it was an abduction. If it were a grab off the street, then the car park where Furzton Sports Ground would be a good spot. It has cover of some trees and access to the path that goes up round the top of the lake.

However, if someone known to Leah pulled up anywhere on her route and she voluntarily got in, then no one would bat an eyelid, most people won't have checked their dash cams if they didn't recall seeing anything out of the ordinary that morning and as we've discussed, CCTV would be limited and often not focused on vehicles.

Personally I'd say 10% she entered a building, 30% chance she entered a vehicle by force and 60% chance she entered a vehicle voluntarily.

Imho she knew the person whose car she got in.

 

[Atoz]

Imho she knew the person whose car she got in.

Certainly that would be my best guess at present. I wonder why the police have been so quiet on the matter.

 

[Skigh]

Another vote for she knew the person whose car she entered.
Still not sure whether I think she is still alive.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Why would she get into a car if she were on her way to work?

 

[Joolz1975]

Why would she get into a car if she were on her way to work?

If I was walking to work and someone I knew pulled up and offered a lift I'd accept.

I suspect most people would.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

I haven’t really looked at the maps properly. I have no idea how far away from work she was when she may have encountered an offer of a lift.

 

[Alyce]

I haven’t really looked at the maps properly. I have no idea how far away from work she was when she may have encountered an offer of a lift.

She was 10 minutes in to a half hour walk...I would have taken a lift for the last 20mins

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Depends if she was walking for fitness. If she was expecting to walk and started work at 9am, then she would have been earlier -

I wonder what proportion of people that she knows would drive to work, be going the same way at the same time, have time and space enough to spot her and offer a lift etc etc. By the latter I had someone stop for me once with an untidy car (like a second bedroom). She stopped on a busy road and had to scoop off stuff from the passenger seat, whilst getting beeped.

Still no updates. Still very weird to me.

 

[Atoz]

Depends if she was walking for fitness. If she was expecting to walk and started work at 9am, then she would have been earlier -

I wonder what proportion of people that she knows would drive to work, be going the same way at the same time, have time and space enough to spot her and offer a lift etc etc. By the latter I had someone stop for me once with an untidy car (like a second bedroom). She stopped on a busy road and had to scoop off stuff from the passenger seat, whilst getting beeped.

Still no updates. Still very weird to me.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it was a coincedental lift.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Are you thinking it was a lift that just the driver planned?

Or a lift that Leah and driver arranged?

I wonder if the police have spoken to everybody that Leah may have possibly accepted a lift from.

I personally think it is more likely to be an element of force or manipulation, without me knowing Leah.

A driver has to not get her to work and ensure her phone is inoperable within a relatively short space of time, if she is not consenting to this presumably out-of-character behaviour. Two people?

 

[Atoz]

Are you thinking it was a lift that just the driver planned?

Or a lift that Leah and driver arranged?

I wonder if the police have spoken to everybody that Leah may have possibly accepted a lift from.

I personally think it is more likely to be an element of force or manipulation, without me knowing Leah.

A driver has to not get her to work and ensure her phone is inoperable within a relatively short space of time, if she is not consenting to this presumably out-of-character behaviour. Two people?

I would suggest it wasn't planned on Leah's side. Certainly could be more than one person, or just some she trusts.

 

[Atoz]

Are you thinking it was a lift that just the driver planned?

Or a lift that Leah and driver arranged?

I wonder if the police have spoken to everybody that Leah may have possibly accepted a lift from.

I personally think it is more likely to be an element of force or manipulation, without me knowing Leah.

A driver has to not get her to work and ensure her phone is inoperable within a relatively short space of time, if she is not consenting to this presumably out-of-character behaviour. Two people?

I think we're all stumped really.

If you were to guess at the most likely scenario of what has happened, what would be your best guess?

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

I am nowhere near a best guess. There is too little info available.

I don’t think she ran away.

I am currently ruling out her being with anyone who was at work premises that Friday at 9am (for example).

I think it is more likely to be one abductor than multiple. I think there would be too much stress by now if more than one were involved in the actual disappearance. There may be another who knows or subsequently suspects, but not necessarily.

I keep wondering if some intel-type was inspired by the Jayme Closs situation. But then this is the UK not America and I wonder how easy it would actually be to keep someone British against their will for any length of time without it being discovered. Seems too crowded to me. I know there is modern slavery which is people living and working against their will but it is easier to imagine non-British being cowed at the thought of British LE and probably not being able to speak the language.

I don’t think she ran away. I don’t think she would willingly not be in touch. I do think she is alive but have no real reasons of why I think that after all the true crime I have ever read. I have half an idea that she wouldn’t trigger a woman-hating opportunist, that the time of day would be wrong for a crime of intense rage (where she was in the path of someone who was enraged by something else).

I feel a bit inhibited by what I put on this thread as there is nothing else about her online so it is more likely that anyone looking online for her would end up reading. I don’t want to make the situation worse for people who know her, or for her, but it feels wrong too for there to be nothing at all.

Wish the police would issue an update. There are a million ways to tell people absolutely nothing while still looking efficient- anyone who has ever sat in a management meeting knows that.