GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

[Cherwell]

I am not sure what sentence the Judge could give if he is only found guilty of rape. Too high and there will inevitably be an appeal.

Have a look here, @Alyce . See what you can get it up to.
Rape – Sentencing

 

[JosieJo]

It might have been just one juror all along, we'll see. I think we'll know by 4 or thereabouts.

I'd have thought if just one we would have heard first thing this morning after she allowed a majority

 

[NorthernSoul]

I guess you only need a few stubborn extremely opinionated or extremely liberal people in a group to cause an issue. JMO

I think that might be rather presumptuous? Maybe you have a group of people who don't want to convict someone of murder unless they feel they have been convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that a murder took place? People who are willing to put their emotions to one side and consider only the facts. People who are willing to make inferences where there is no other logical explanation but are not willing to convict on speculation? I don't consider that stubborn, nor extremely liberal, just sensible.

 

[Alyce]

and a fresh jury I presume?

Yes completely new Jury

 

[NorthernSoul]

I agree. I completely believe he is guilty, but just one of the things you’ve listed could have been what an unsure juror/s really needed to reach a murder verdict.

I imagined more complex evidence would have been presented by the prosecution, did the police not do thorough enough leg work ? I’m convinced he must have awful internet searches relating to asphyxiation and rape at the very least.

Really didn’t expect the trial to remind me of how ‘basic’ Lindsay Birbeck’s was. Although the outcome there was guilty.


whatever the outcome now, I’m still hoping the judge will give him life on the rape charge. In this country, we know a murder sentence can still mean very little in terms of serving time.

There is a majority of women.

 

[JosieJo]

It might have been just one juror all along, we'll see. I think we'll know by 4 or thereabouts.

I'd have thought if just one we would have heard first thing this morning after she allowed a majority

I think that might be rather presumptuous? Maybe you have a group of people who don't want to convict someone of murder unless they feel they have been convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that a murder took place? People who are willing to put their emotions to one side and consider only the facts. People who are willing to make inferences where there is no other logical explanation but are not willing to convict on speculation? I don't consider that stubborn, nor extremely liberal, just sensible.

Me too ... and as we still don't have a verdict..so doesn't seem to be one or two

 

[Newthoughts]

For me I wish there had been one more piece of evidence to close the deal
Just some blood on his clothes ?
Some Internet searches on bodies in rivers?
Previous violence ?
A liking for auto asphyxiation *advertiser censored* ?
The sort of things in other cases that tip the balance

To be honest if I wanted to dispose of a body and there was a river on my doorstep I wouldn't need to research it.

He's been in Hull long enough to know about the river. There is a stock press image of him by The Deep so he knows where the evidence would be going.

I'm not sure why he'd need auto asphyxiation *advertiser censored* or violent *advertiser censored*. Not sure what that would add. IMO he's simply getting rid of evidence. No more no less.

He washed his clothes - most killers will. So we don't know what's on them.

We do have a lack of empathy tho. Very few people could harm vulnerable others that's why we feel a particular revulsion for crimes that include it. Libby was vulnerable. That IMO is more telling than his *advertiser censored* history.

I'm not sure why they'd tip the balance

 

[Jarvis1969]

There is a majority of women.

My Partner was on jury duty a few years ago and it was a rape trial, he said the female members of the jury were dreadful relating to the rape charges, he was disgusted with their attitude towards the victim, luckily the guy was found guilty

 

[NorthernSoul]

My Partner was on jury duty a few years ago and it was a rape trial, he said the female members of the jury were dreadful relating to the rape charges, he was disgusted with their attitude towards the victim, luckily the guy was found guilty

Personally I don't judge people on their gender at all. Everyone is an individual.

 

[Newthoughts]

I was talking about my personal feelings, not assuming those of her family.

I did attempt to acknowledge that her family will likely feel very differently but its impossible (for me) to say how they feel or what their thoughts may be.

Sorry if you find my thoughts offensive, that wasn't the intention and I tried to be as sensitive as I could in my wording.

I was talking about my personal feelings too. I didn't find it offensive. But I know if it were me I'd want my daughter's murder fully acknowledged and punished. I'd want justice.

 

[elliefant]

No matter how many times I explain to the dogs, they just simply cannot understand that we cannot go for a walk yet ....

 

[Cherwell]

I hate to say this but I think perhaps the majority of men on the jury might go some way to answering for this deadlock.

Personally I don't judge people on their gender at all. Everyone is an individual.

Agreed, it's invidious to draw conclusions based on gender.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Absolutely, I think of a few people I know and if they were ever to serve on a jury ...yikes

Exactly this!

 

[Jarvis1969]

Oh I wasnt d

Personally I don't judge people on their gender at all. Everyone is an individual.

Sorry, I didnt for one minute think that you thought that, I was just posting my Partner’s experience as an example

 

[Chambo1994]

I was talking about my personal feelings too. I didn't find it offensive. But I know if it were me I'd want my daughter's murder fully acknowledged and punished. I'd want justice.

On the flip side, would you want your daughter jailed for the rest of her life if it was something you didn’t think she’d do?

We all in here are in agreement that PR one way or another is responsible for LS death. But it’s a horribly tough job for the Jury, they have to make a decision that will massively affect numerous lives.

I think I speak for pretty much everyone when I say, let’s all hope any blockages are overcome today and they make a decision which gives LS and her loved ones justice.

 

[Challwood]

I agree. It won't feel like nearly enough for me. He is the reason Libby is dead.

I am not sure what sentence the Judge could give if he is only found guilty of rape. Too high and there will inevitably be an appeal.

There was another rape case in Hull recently that was quite similar to Libby’s in that she was targeted and picked up by car when drunk and vunerable. She was luckily found alive. He received a 14 year sentence.
I’m personally hoping PR will receive a much longer sentence, this is just to show what kind of sentence that could possibly be handed out if they were looking at the rape charge on its own.

 

[VicBlazey]

No matter how many times I explain to the dogs, they just simply cannot understand that we cannot go for a walk yet ....

I don't think I've refreshed a page so much in my life!!

 

[Alyce]

Have a look here, @Alyce . See what you can get it up to.
Rape – Sentencing

I get a figure of lowest possible being 13 years, the highest 19 years. That is before I add on aggravating factors, of which I can find 6 - and there may be more that I just cannot know about - eg; threats, use of weapon

I can find no mitigating factors.

Still a pitifully low figure imo

 

[Cherwell]

I get a figure of lowest possible being 13 years, the highest 19 years. That is before I add on aggravating factors, of which I can find 6 - and there may be more that I just cannot know about - eg; threats, use of weapon
I can find no mitigating factors.
Still a pitifully low figure imo

There's also the "Dangerousness" factor (step 5). He's already been described as dangerous by the previous judge.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

IMO regardless of the verdict, there are two families who will have this on their minds for a very very long time. Libby’s family lost a beautiful girl. PR’s family will have to deal with the aftermath of his crimes. His two young children will eventually find out and hopefully they have strong support to help them navigate their thoughts and feelings.