GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

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Oh I wasnt d


Sorry, I didnt for one minute think that you thought that, I was just posting my Partner’s experience as an example
No worries - I probably responded to the wrong post as what got me going was the comment before yours someone made that somehow it's to do with there being men on the jury that there has not been a guilty verdict. I think they have deleted it now! I'm a woman but I think the inference that men are somehow insensitive is a bit insulting.
 
I get a figure of lowest possible being 13 years, the highest 19 years. That is before I add on aggravating factors, of which I can find 6 - and there may be more that I just cannot know about - eg; threats, use of weapon

I can find no mitigating factors.

Still a pitifully low figure imo

13 would likely mean out in 7.
If it’s run concurrent with his current convictions, it’d be barely any extra time for him....

Justice system is a disgrace isn’t it.
 
No worries - I probably responded to the wrong post as what got me going was the comment before yours someone made that somehow it's to do with there being men on the jury that there has not been a guilty verdict. I think they have deleted it now! I'm a woman but I think the inference that men are somehow insensitive is a bit insulting.

Yes, I saw that too, totally agree with you
 
Would how much of a danger he clearly is to women warrant a life sentence for the Rape charge alone do you think?

I'd like to think so, but I bet he'll just be put on the Sex Offenders Register for life instead. I can't see him not reoffending tbh...and I do believe in rehabilitation in prison. I just don't think PR is capable of this IMO
 
On the flip side, would you want your daughter jailed for the rest of her life if it was something you didn’t think she’d do?

We all in here are in agreement that PR one way or another is responsible for LS death. But it’s a horribly tough job for the Jury, they have to make a decision that will massively affect numerous lives.

I think I speak for pretty much everyone when I say, let’s all hope any blockages are overcome today and they make a decision which gives LS and her loved ones justice.
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Your comment sort of starts from the premise of our difference on his guilt. That's not the case because I'm sure BARD of his guilt.

But to take the comment as I think you meant - if I had any reasonable doubts about his guilt I couldn't, in all conscience, find him guilty. Because innocent people shouldn't be convicted

Conversely if it were my daughter and she was guilty, especially of something like this, I'd have accept it. It would be gut wrenching but if she were guilty she'd have to serve time.

If wasn't sure beyond reasonable doubt I'd go not guilty - not because he wouldn't deserve it but because things like the law and fair trials are important. If a law is wrong (eg victim blaming in rape cases) fight to change it.

But I don't have any reasonable doubts.

I cannot reconcile his later behaviour with a man worried about evidence being found.

Nor can a I reconcile someone raping someone near a river and leaving the evidence. Then lying about being there. It's just too unlikely to believe .

Nor can a reconcile Libby getting into that river herself from outside the park.

I don't understand how anyone can reconcile all those facts and more but plenty here have. I don't know how?

The fair trial is for Libby as well as him.

Edited to correct spelling
 
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To be honest if I wanted to dispose of a body and there was a river on my doorstep I wouldn't need to research it.

He's been in Hull long enough to know about the river. There is a stock press image of him by The Deep so he knows where the evidence would be going.

I'm not sure why he'd need auto asphyxiation *advertiser censored* or violent *advertiser censored*. Not sure what that would add. IMO he's simply getting rid of evidence. No more no less.

He washed his clothes - most killers will. So we don't know what's on them.

We do have a lack of empathy tho. Very few people could harm vulnerable others that's why we feel a particular revulsion for crimes that include it. Libby was vulnerable. That IMO is more telling than his *advertiser censored* history.

I'm not sure why they'd tip the balance

Having followed lots of cases these are exactly the type of things presented that do tip the balance...knowing a river is there is not the same as a murderer desperate to know how a body will react in water etc

Blood has often been found on clothes despite washing..especially shoes

These are things seen many times in trials ..tipping the balance..I really struggle with an opinion that they wouldn't..but I accept its your opinion
 
Yes, I'm surprised there have been no 'character' references from either side. I'm amazed his wife hasn't been called for her account of that night, with PR's comings and goings, bath and washing clothes etc. How long he was off work for, and why?

I was thinking exactly this too!

Does anyone know if after the trial the full court transcripts are ever made available to the public?
 
She didn't stay at home when the taxi driver left her there. She may not have stayed at home if Pawel had left her there.

Do you remember when a witness saw Pawel cleaning the inside of his car after Libby's last sighting? If he was washing mud from inside of his car and the ground was frozen solid, where did the mud come from?

I don’t believe she actually said she didn’t want to go home, the witness accounts all point to Libby saying she wanted to go home but walking in the wrong direction, and PR himself said Libby wanted to go back home. I think she was so drunk and confused she couldn’t find her home, PR took her away from safety.

Mud could have come from by the river maybe, or could be yet another lie and PR was just trying to wash away DNA evidence of Libby being in his car, but I believe that is where the first attempt to sexually assault her was in the car, that’s why she ran. He probably thought they’d swab his car and find fingerprints or DNA on handles or something so cleaned it. I think he does have knowledge of fingerprinting and DNA, he’s used the language barrier to appear naive, I think he understands a lot more than he’s letting on.

The defense have painted him to be someone who acts on impulse, who is just a sex pest, has little knowledge of DNA evidence and doesn’t care about being caught which is why he did his previous crimes in broad daylight, but it was when he levelled up to rape and murder that he suddenly took steps to not get caught, that night he went out with intentions of ‘having sex’ as he said in his own words and he had to have known this was not going to be consensual, he knew he would be looking for a woman to rape, this is shown in the footage of him stalking Libby, ‘hugging the walls’, popping out of the shadows, he KNEW what he was doing was very wrong that night, it’s evidenced in how he stalked Libby and the steps he took to try and not get caught such as cleaning his car, looking for the condom, making trips back to the crime scene and lying. Previous times he didn’t care about being seen, would look women straight in the face as he masturbated in public, drove around with the things he’d stolen in his car. But suddenly this night he took precaution to not get caught, because he planned it. He knew he was going out to do something very bad whether that was rape or murder or both. He probably thought he wouldn’t even get a custodial sentence for his previous crimes, but he wanted more and knew that if he went that step further he’d have to be more careful, so I do think more pre planning went into this, he was looking for a victim that night, tragically he came across Libby. I think it was such a cold night he knew the only women that would be out alone would be drunk vulnerable young girls. He saw an opportunity and pounced but he knew full well what he was going to do before hand, he wanted to get more of a thrill because perhaps the other stuff wasn’t doing it for him anymore. He wanted a woman against her will, powerless, and submissive but with Libby he encountered someone who fought back, which angered him, I think he’d been imagining this moment for a long time and in his head the woman was always too scared to fight back, Libby took him by surprise with the scratch and the rage caused him to kill her. IMO

But we will see what the jury says...
 
And for sure, it will run concurrent. The thought of him out in 7 years or less is very sad. Not justice imo.


I truly hope this wouldn't be the case.
That the aggravating factors would warrant a life sentence with minimum term for the rape conviction alone.
Absolutely agree that would not like like justice of any kind and would absolutely shake my faith in the system we have.
 
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