Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #10 *ARREST*

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This was one of my thoughts but didn't want to say it. I also thought that maybe there would be an unusual amount of bird activity and noise (crows maybe).

Edit - as this is a popular place for dog walkers (presumably mostly regulars) surely they would notice this. Also how likely is it that a dog off its lead would be able to smell something unusual and seek it out?

Yes, I would expect that. My dogs always seemed to find some deceased animal or fish to roll in at the farm or beach, god knows why they have the urge to do that.
Off topic - but how could you not smell anything. Not saying it was cannabis you were growing but I can smell it a mile off. It's an awfully strong smell

I honestly don’t know what it smells of! I’m surrounded by crop fields, I’m used to chicken, pig & horse poop being spread on the fields.

Police decided the smell was possibly coming up thru a water drain at the front of my house by my bush from further up the hamlet! I was innocent honestly!
 
If any locals have some spare time around 11 am tomorrow Tuesday (well today now) the tide will be at it's highest at around 11 a.m. - ish. Wed it will be highest around noon - ish. If I wasn't living in the West Country I'd check out The Hull myself :)
 
@bos said:
This is police dog Charlie who was certified proficient in victim recovery and forensics which I’m lead to believe is an alternative name for cadaver dog


Would certainly track any decomposition and blood and if she were there alive but hidden. Not sure about detection if she’d been there previously alive and uninjured unless clothing/bedding had been in contact with her and remained unwashed. Not sure if Charlie’s training has included detecting remains under water which is another thing victim discovery dogs can be trained to do.

This is a similar 'victim recovery' dog, Eddie, in action.
2:16 "While they wait in his van, he's hiding a jar of sand, it contains the scent of 100 year old human remains..."

I believe if Libby was in PRs house that night she would have left some trace for the dog, it wouldn't have to be a physical item left behind. Just her historical presence would be enough. Of course it may depend how long the Police took to get to him? Am I right in remembering it was day 5 he was brought in? So I guess if he was thorough AND lucky her scent may have gone by then? Hmm...

Introducing tracker dog 'Jack'
26:00 "...weeks after a person has walked somewhere Jack can track their exact route."
Kelly Hyde had been missing for three days...
27:50 "Jack just sniffed one item of Kelly's clothing, quickly he found a matching scent outside the house where she was last seen.
30:20 "Now Jack had to find her killer"
30:38 "Jack was able to track the killer from the scene of the murder to where he lived."


Police sniffer dogs in action...
This dog has been trained to find cash and drugs
13:55 He indicates towards a hole-in-the-wall cash machine!
14:06 The dog digs out a baccy tin, from under a load of other stuff, at the bottom of a box. The baccy tin USED TO HAVE cannabis in it. That dog went straight for the tin and was trying to indicate inside it, but the drugs were no longer there... he has sniffed that from a yard or so away.
The WPC dog handler: "Remnants of cannabis, in a tin, hidden up high, in a box... that nose impresses me everytime"
39:25 Some of the dogs goes through some training; Every 6 months they have to re-certified in all the areas they are qualified in, drugs, firearms, people etc;
 
Yes. I remember it well. I don't know how she was not found sooner. This is one of the reasons as well as the case with Tia Sharpe, why I keep questioning how well the police have searched gardens and houses etc.
Not all gardens backing on to the park have been searched yet either.

DNA evidence lasts a long while so while we would all like Libby found asap as im sure the police also would , from a judicial standpoint hopefully the delay dosnt interfere with bringing her killer to justice.
 
Thank you for your reply! Think they are big black birds circling that I often see.
I’d be no good searching, police came to my house, said my bush smelt of cannabis! They asked if they could search my house and asked me if I was growing it? The only things I was growing was a box of kittens as local Tom cat had snook in thru the catflap and tampered with my young feline. The police took me outside to sniff my bush, I couldn’t smell a thing!
Haha :p
 
JMO
If a body is totally submerged in any water then that would minimize any odors. Additionally if a body has been buried deep enough in dirt then that would also minimize odors.

I do agree if a body was just like put under leaves or something then there would be a strong foul odor and sometimes carion birds like vultures or crows may congregate nearby but that is not always guaranteed to have birds circling over head. We live out in country and I had killed a snake once and threw it in the woods and when I went near the area I could smell the odor of the decaying snake and I expected to see crows at some point but never did see any. I think a possum or skunk finally came and took the snake away to eat it because it disappeared within about 3 days.

So it really just depends. I am not sure what types of carion birds would be near that city park. We have heard many people here say there are foxes nearby so they could disturb a burial and drag out bones or parts of a body to other places so that is possible too. But again if buried good enough or in water then probably not as likely.

And of course the wind can make a difference if people are out searching and expecting to use their sense of smell to help find a body. If a strong wind in one direction then you have to be downwind to be able to smell the decay.
Being upwind you will not be able to smell anything unless really close.

JMO of course

I posted some videos about Police sniffer dogs earlier;

This is a video by an ex-cop,
14:26 In this section "CANINES" he explains about the sniffer drugs dogs' capabilities
17:59 This might be one of his busts, a Police dog sniffs out a stash that has been shoved into PVC pipes and hidden in a petrol tank full of petrol.

I've often suspected with the 'official' Police programs whether there is an amount of psychological bluff from them. Traffic Cops, and a couple of others, they only ever seem to show successes. If the helicopter comes out its always 100% successful with it's heat camera etc there's no point running or hiding.

But a decent search on tinternet will brig up plenty of phone vids that show kids in cars or on mopeds playing with the Police and getting away.

So I've always suspected a degree of kidology there.

It could be the same with the dogs in these programs, they big up their abilities in general to puff up the powers of the Police, so we all just don't bother you'll NEVER get away with ANY criminal activity.

However, the handlers do seem genuinely amazed, and the UK Police dogs are trained every day and tested every 6 months. If they fail the cert test they are removed from service until they pass.

Perhaps 'Charlie' the sniffer dog they used gave an indication from the bench at Haworth/Libby's house to the park, and possibly to the bench in the park?

The dog makes me suspect that Libby and/or PR WERE in the park. They took the dog to PR's and Libby's houses for scent.

The Police have been searching the park, somewhat uncertainly.

So that makes me believe that the dog has taken the Police to the park, but has failed to scent a corpse, he has followed a trail?

The other thing to remember is that there was a layer of ice that night.

Has any scent of Libby or PR's movements literally been washed away in the thaw? It wouldn't affect a dog looking for a hidden body, or trying to find an implement/weapon in the park, but would it be a significant factor in following a traces out on the frozen streets when that dog is working those streets after a thaw?
 
@Strontium69 I don't remember off the top of my head which video of yours it was in - in one of your videos you were stood near the river, I can't remember if it was the one with the photographer near the river or a different one (if there even is a different one lol, I'm tired and got the flu so memory's not working), you walked towards/through some trees/bushes I think and I recall seeing a discarded green hoodie/shirt/clothing on the floor. I don't think you mentioned it in the video, I was going to ask about it after I watched the whole thing and then forgot until now!
 
@Strontium69 I don't remember off the top of my head which video of yours it was in - in one of your videos you were stood near the river, I can't remember if it was the one with the photographer near the river or a different one (if there even is a different one lol, I'm tired and got the flu so memory's not working), you walked towards/through some trees/bushes I think and I recall seeing a discarded green hoodie/shirt/clothing on the floor. I don't think you mentioned it in the video, I was going to ask about it after I watched the whole thing and then forgot until now!

Yes I think it is that video, it's later on from where I speak to the press guy on the bank...

22:30

Yeah a green hoody on the floor, I did notice it. But I've done a fair bit of urbex as a photographer that discarded clothing is just such a common feature of these types of places.

27:36 There's a child's play tent

I guess I noticed but didn't 'note it' as I see that kind of thing all the time in these settings.

Something bothering you about that?
 
Yes I think it is that video, it's later on from where I speak to the press guy on the bank...

22:30

Yeah a green hoody on the floor, I did notice it. But I've done a fair bit of urbex as a photographer that discarded clothing is just such a common feature of these types of places.

27:36 There's a child's play tent

I guess I noticed but didn't 'note it' as I see that kind of thing all the time in these settings.

Something bothering you about that?
Yeah it's been bothering me since I first watched the video lol! Yes I took a screenshot and found the time stamp just as you replied to my message. Screenshot_20190226-023210.png I know it's probably irrelevant and I'm just being paranoid but I feel as though because that entire park/river/pond area might be holding evidence or clues that have not yet been found and, especially now that the police have specifically been looking for discarded clothing in gardens backing onto the park, any clothing or fabric I came across, I'd be like "omg must let the police know!" Lol. Like I said, probably just me being paranoid!
 
There are just too many indicators pointing towards P at the moment. I'd like to think him innocent, but in what alternate reality would this scenario actually play out?

Personally I think he is intelligent, I think he is lucky and I think he's currently wondering how on earth they haven't found her.
I've no idea of his intelligence and no way of discovering it.

I don't see him as a lucky person.

He got pulled into this investigation pretty quickly.

He's been charged with a number of offences.

He's probably lost his wife and kids.

Most people think he is involved and will continue to do so.

None of this seems lucky to me.
 
Off topic - but how could you not smell anything. Not saying it was cannabis you were growing but I can smell it a mile off. It's an awfully strong smell

I leave work via the back entrance and pavement that gets very little sun and the area is a bit algal and the smell often reminds me of cannabis/weed.
 
I've no idea of his intelligence and no way of discovering it.

I don't see him as a lucky person.

He got pulled into this investigation pretty quickly.

He's been charged with a number of offences.

He's probably lost his wife and kids.

Most people think he is involved and will continue to do so.

None of this seems lucky to me.

I'd say very lucky.

He's got away with sexually motivated offences dating back at least two years until this. Even his theiving record seems more deviant than financial. I know police resources might not stretch to nicked laptops but sex toys and photos should have triggered alarms

Libby's body hasn't been found and without that it's his dodgy story to his sister against the police (the Libby coming on to him was his big mistake there - always going to be unlikely in those circumstances even less so when his previous history was revealed, fear of her being sick in his car would have been a better lie for whatever evidence that was covering).

Without that there is no way of reaching the proof beyond reasonable doubt.

He'll possibly serve 18 months to two years for first offence burglary and flashing and be out to disappear and reoffend.

So I'd say he's been very lucky and cunning.

He will reoffend imo. Occams razor explanation changes with every new bit of info. The last piece in the jigsaw was his demeanor in court on unrelated charges.

His location that night (why a student area, there are better places to get consenting sex), the time (possibility of bus and first wave of students coming home), the nature of his previous offences (creepy by anyones standards he'd be well aware that fear and upset are the reactions to flashing not a date) and finally his demeanor in court (not normal for an innocent person nor your average guilty first time offender)
 
I've no idea of his intelligence and no way of discovering it.

I don't see him as a lucky person.

He got pulled into this investigation pretty quickly.

He's been charged with a number of offences.

He's probably lost his wife and kids.

Most people think he is involved and will continue to do so.

None of this seems lucky to me.

If he is responsible then he's not been charged for it after 96 hours questioning - there's got to be some luck or intelligence involved there.

Some of what he has been charged for happened a few years ago, so if he's responsible for those crimes then there's some luck or intelligence involved there.
 
DNA evidence lasts a long while so while we would all like Libby found asap as im sure the police also would , from a judicial standpoint hopefully the delay dosnt interfere with bringing her killer to justice.

DNA can last thousands of years in the right conditions, but degrades with sunlight, oxygen and water, so samples from outside arent necessarily going to be useful.
 
why still no Facebook group organising a mass walking group searching the park ? This is always one of the first things I see the local community organising in cases like these .

The police usually advise people to search their own properties as studies have shown mass searches aren't that effective; people lose concentration after about 500m and there's the consideration of what they might find. Plus there are also all the factors like preserving the scene, and the need for resources to ensure the welfare of searchers, crowd control and taking details of all those involved in case the perpetrator gets involved.
 
Gosh I'm really sorry to hear you went through something like that!

One more thing - If that cctv is L getting into P’s car - why would he do that right in front of a camera? He obviously a) doesn’t care because he was genuinely just trying to help her b) doesn’t realise c) doesn’t care because he’s arrogant?!

The gates were closed, and the camera isn't obvious, it's well back from the road, I think most likely he didn't know it was there.

3:20 Is the spot where he parked showing the gates and the CCTV camera; albeit during the day with the gates open.
Did the security light switch on when you stood at the blue gates?
 
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