UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #21

[mrazda71]

Put in the river face down, in mud/reeds and water, partly submerged, very close to the bank out of obvious view, she was wearing black, the river-level rising, and the screaming stopped at that point.

If she was breathing though, she'd have taken water into her lungs/stomach, wouldn't she?

Plus ... definitely murder.

 

[Sooty]

Put in the river face down, in mud/reeds and water, partly submerged, very close to the bank out of obvious view, she was wearing black, the river-level rising, and the screaming stopped at that point.

I think we are due to hear that the screaming didn’t stop though.

 

[bos]

Indeed and he is a butcher. The ones at the end of my road can regularly be seen lifting massive carcasses from the lorry into the back of the shop.

And I've seen my daughter's boyfriend grab her and run down a beach with her - without adrenaline

He was a butcher yes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he was involved in hefting whole carcasses around.

 

[Sooty]

If she was breathing though, she'd have taken water into her lungs/stomach, wouldn't she?

Plus ... definitely murder.

if it was murder before she was in the water, it would have taken longer to asphyxiate until death occurred, on average about 5 minutes from what I can see - with the application of a sustained, constant force.

MOO derived from info readily available

edited for spelling and punctuation!

 

[Newthoughts]

He was a butcher yes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he was involved in hefting whole carcasses around.

Ah ok thanks for that. But I still think he'd have been capable of dragging, carrying Libby wherever he wanted

 

[LucyRocket]

Not that we know about or could possibly diagnose from what has been reported about him

I thought I'd missed it!

 

[LucyRocket]

If you go on the hull news page and click on the reporters name it will give you their email address. Perhaps you could take this one? I don't want to seem like I'm bombarding her

I was thinking that myself

Anyone else got anything they'd like me to ask while I'm at it?

 

[Chambo1994]

I think one of the points I can’t piece in to the timeframe is the mental aspect of it.

As far as we are aware he has never killed anyone before! And I think even those of you with the extreme views on one side of the case doubt his intention that night was to murder from minute one, it was to find a girl to rape and has clearly escalated.

But thinking of it this way, if he’s took her to the park and raped her and killed her in the process, how long has he sat panicking? You’d think in the circumstances once she stopped breathing or showed signs of lifelessness he’d have had the moment of panic thinking “what have I done, how am I going to get out of this, what will I do with her”. But the timeframe would suggest he would have had to just instantly picked her up and got rid of her then ran back to the car.

This is why I think the only logical way the timeframe can work with sex, distance etc is if he got rid of the body on visit 3 or at a later date

Hope what I’m trying to say, makes sense!

 

[Sooty]

I think one of the points I can’t piece in to the timeframe is the mental aspect of it.

As far as we are aware he has never killed anyone before! And I think even those of you with the extreme views on one side of the case doubt his intention that night was to murder from minute one, it was to find a girl to rape and has clearly escalated.

But thinking of it this way, if he’s took her to the park and raped her and killed her in the process, how long has he sat panicking? You’d think in the circumstances one she stopped breathing or showed signs of lifelessness he’d have had the moment of panic thinking “what have I done, how am I going to get out of this, what will I do with her”. But the timeframe would suggest he would have had to just instantly picked her up and got rid of her then ran back to the car.

This is why I think the only logical way the timeframe can work with sex, distance etc is if he got rid of the body on visit 3 or at a later date

Hope what I’m trying to say, makes sense!

absolutely makes sense. It’s a good point.

 

[Skigh]

I was thinking that myself

Anyone else got anything they'd like me to ask while I'm at it?

I would like to know about PR's attitude in court. He was recorded laughing once, had he been smirking or laughing at other times.
Did he appear cocky and arrogant?

 

[Cherwell]

Anyone else got anything they'd like me to ask while I'm at it?

Try and find out diplomatically if she's reporting everything or just as much as she can manage are we just seeing edited highlights?

 

[Catsarse]

I think adrenaline is more commonly linked with the fear response - fight/flight/fright.

Also, I think the effects of ejaculation would be to reduce energy temporarily.

Adrenaline - Wikipedia (see emotional response)

and not a scientifc article but - What Is the Connection between Semen and Energy?

In this case I would assume adrenaline from the sexual act, potential killing/making Libby unconscious and the pure fear/fright of what happened and him thinking he may be caught.

Not typical adrenaline like mine in fight or flight but I would be almost certain he had it coursing through him at that point.

 

[LucyRocket]

I would like to know about PR's attitude in court. He was recorded laughing once, had he been smirking or laughing at other times.
Did he appear cocky and arrogant?

Yes that was the other question I'd put in

 

[HullGirl72]

<modsnip: Do not discuss other members or moderation>

Okay, if we take his opinion that someone else was involved and it could be some random person/people on the park who got to Libby after PR left, why would they risk a murder charge by throwing her in the river?
They didn’t have sex with her as it wasn’t reported there were two or more dna types concluding multiple rape, which I’m pretty sure it would have been had that been the case.
So anyone any ideas why a random person would throw her in the river if they found her unconscious?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I think one of the points I can’t piece in to the timeframe is the mental aspect of it.

As far as we are aware he has never killed anyone before! And I think even those of you with the extreme views on one side of the case doubt his intention that night was to murder from minute one, it was to find a girl to rape and has clearly escalated.

But thinking of it this way, if he’s took her to the park and raped her and killed her in the process, how long has he sat panicking? You’d think in the circumstances once she stopped breathing or showed signs of lifelessness he’d have had the moment of panic thinking “what have I done, how am I going to get out of this, what will I do with her”. But the timeframe would suggest he would have had to just instantly picked her up and got rid of her then ran back to the car.

This is why I think the only logical way the timeframe can work with sex, distance etc is if he got rid of the body on visit 3 or at a later date

Hope what I’m trying to say, makes sense!

I always thought the spidercam of him sitting in his car door was some kind of pivotal moment. When I watch that, it's like he is sitting there considering something and thinking it through. Just an impression I got from it.

 

[elysian2]

I apologise if this is deemed not relevant to this thread (since it hasn't been mentioned in the trial): did we ever understand why the forensic activity took place around that bench? I had assumed at the time and until the trial that probably PR had claimed consensual activity and cited the bench as the location, and the police were trying to rule that in/out. It now transpires that he didn't say that. So whatever information led the police to that specific bench did not come from PR? Or did I miss something?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I apologise if this is deemed not relevant to this thread (since it hasn't been mentioned in the trial): did we ever understand why the forensic activity took place around that bench? I had assumed at the time and until the trial that probably PR had claimed consensual activity and cited the bench as the location, and the police were trying to rule that in/out. It now transpires that he didn't say that. So whatever information led the police to that specific bench did not come from PR? Or did I miss something?

Not yet, but several of us are very curious about it!

 

[Newthoughts]

I apologise if this is deemed not relevant to this thread (since it hasn't been mentioned in the trial): did we ever understand why the forensic activity took place around that bench? I had assumed at the time and until the trial that probably PR had claimed consensual activity and cited the bench as the location, and the police were trying to rule that in/out. It now transpires that he didn't say that. So whatever information led the police to that specific bench did not come from PR? Or did I miss something?

Yes lots of us are curious

 

[mrazda71]

if it was murder before she was in the water, it would have taken longer to asphyxiate until death occurred, on average about 5 minutes from what I can see - with the application of a sustained, constant force.

MOO derived from info readily available

edited for spelling and punctuation!

5mins is the higher end - average is 2-5 and bearing in mind she was drunk, hyperthermic, cold air affects breathing and it would be a traumatic asphyxiation - I think it wouldn't take anywhere near 5 mins. IMO

 

[mrazda71]

I think one of the points I can’t piece in to the timeframe is the mental aspect of it.

As far as we are aware he has never killed anyone before! And I think even those of you with the extreme views on one side of the case doubt his intention that night was to murder from minute one, it was to find a girl to rape and has clearly escalated.

But thinking of it this way, if he’s took her to the park and raped her and killed her in the process, how long has he sat panicking? You’d think in the circumstances once she stopped breathing or showed signs of lifelessness he’d have had the moment of panic thinking “what have I done, how am I going to get out of this, what will I do with her”. But the timeframe would suggest he would have had to just instantly picked her up and got rid of her then ran back to the car.

This is why I think the only logical way the timeframe can work with sex, distance etc is if he got rid of the body on visit 3 or at a later date

Hope what I’m trying to say, makes sense!

It does make sense but, remember, your sat there thinking about it all as a 'normal' non deviant law abiding citizen ... he was used to reacting quickly when caught committing his other crimes and even when chased into the street by menfolk, he added a brave 'FO' as he ran past them.