UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

[JosieJo]

I don't think they lie tho

No I don't mean they lie at all ...what I meant was the prosecution may have said it caught them arriving and him leaving as in car movement....could be wrong ..hopefully so as it would show their interaction and movement at some point ...just surprised not mentioned in opening

 

[Newthoughts]

I’m not sure why timings are a concern for people. It really does not take long to kill someone, especially when they’re not putting up a fight and when adrenaline is pumping. IIRC the snow was not thick enough that it would make it difficult for him her to run in. I can’t remember the last time we got snow that thick in Hull. Also, if she is dead/unconscious carrying her wouldn’t be an issue, she doesn’t look particularly heavy and she was likely quite floppy in that sense. Further, he was likely considerably sexually charged at that point so the rape wouldn’t have taken long if you catch my drift.

I agree completely!

 

[Scorpiette]

Is there a possibility that he left her on the river bank, and the water had risen, pulling her body into the flow of the river? I remember we discussed the river levels but it was so long ago I can't remember!

There would then be no trace of trampled on bushes, hearing a splash, drag marks etc.?

I seem to remember PR liked to go fishing? Was it a photo on FB? Can anyone else remember this? If so, maybe his knowledge of river flows/tides etc gave him confidence about placing L in the river, so the poor girl would be carried away.

 

[JosieJo]

I’m not sure why timings are a concern for people. It really does not take long to kill someone, especially when they’re not putting up a fight and when adrenaline is pumping. IIRC the snow was not thick enough that it would make it difficult for him or her to run in - I can’t remember the last time we got snow that thick in Hull! Also, if she is dead/unconscious carrying her wouldn’t be an issue, she doesn’t look particularly heavy and she was likely quite floppy in that sense. Further, he was likely considerably sexually charged at that point so the rape wouldn’t have taken long if you catch my drift.

For me personally its not the attack itself its the distance from car to river ..no matter how you look at it ..even accounting for only a couple of minutes for the attack and death its very tight

 

[JosieJo]

Even the prosecution are aware the timings are at best tight ...hence them bringing up the timings in opening speech ...and giving the jury the alternative "option" of him moving her at his 3rd visit ...

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Maybe he used a condom in the street so that he could keep warmer, exposing himself less and not getting wetter and stickier. (I am not male, and don’t particular want to think too deeply about this).

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

She could have run off and ended up in the river hence the screams.
Why wouldn’t that be a possibility?

playing the devils advocate for debate

It depends where he raped her. Did he rape her earlier in the evening or after entering the park. The cctv saw them both enter the park and only him leave. It depends on how this happened. Was she running and him following. Were they walking together or was she being dragged/carried. I forget the timeline betweek the screams ending and him being seen running out of the park.

 

[LucyRocket]

I was just reading over some articles and found this, a little more info re those scratches.

Libby 'fought back as Pawel Relowicz raped her' murder trial hears

Hopeful the link works.

I was waiting to see which side of his face the scratches were on, as Libby appears to be left-handed. Also on the right side of his body

 

[PitchforkRed]

He told several different lies to various people and none involved the Endsleigh centre so I don't think that's likely at all.

Indeed. Is the trial the first we have heard of the Endsleigh Centre being a place of interest? I don't recall it being mentioned beforehand. I am not familiar with that part of Hull but it seems to be a former convent turned into residential apartments.

The Endsleigh Centre website states: The first phase of the staged development will be available from September 2018 and will release 50 bedrooms, with phase 2 in November 2018 adding a further 36 bedrooms and the final phase of 128 bedrooms being released from January to March 2019.

So the development was almost complete and will have had a number of residents at the time of Libby's disappearance, though I see from satellite images there's a large park area to the front and sides which may be out of view of any CCTV cameras.

EDIT: Just done some further checks. As with most construction projects, this one seems to have been delayed, and according to Hull Daily Mail, the first development phase wasn't actually completed until May 2019, so the apartments would have been empty.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

We would be extremely grateful if you did. Could you take some pictures?

If I get there I will definately take pictures. I will be passing the yeast factory later. Not sure if you can get onto the riverbank there to see that can be seen from that side but might be interesting to see the park from that side.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I was waiting to see which side of his face the scratches were on, as Libby appears to be left-handed. Also on the right side of his body

Do we know she’s left handed, Lucy? I thought the same when I heard about the scratches, but couldn’t recall it coming up before.

Good to see you back here by the way, and everyone else too!

 

[Sooty]

Timeline for the park:

12:11 PR and LS arrive at park (cctv)
12:14 Man in house wakes up (I’m not sure what woke him at this point, sorry) he wakes and looks at phone.
‘2/3 mins’ (his estimate) later he hears screams 150 metres away (his estimate) so
12:16 /12:17 let’s say
‘A few minutes after’ he sees a man running from the park.
12:19 PR returns to car (cctv)

 

[Little Nicki]

Regarding the short timespan.... I've just been chatting with a friend, we both live in Hull but are not from here originally. At the time Libby went missing she lived within the immediate area and had her back garden searched at the beginning, she said she didn't even know Oak Road Park or fields existed until it was highlighted in the news during her disappearance, but that after that she started taking her young child to the park there so has been there quite a few times. She has been following the trail too and says the timing doesn't concern her at all. She said you can reach the river from the carpark in around 1 minute and that it isn't as far as it looks on the maps.

 

[Skigh]

If I get there I will definately take pictures. I will be passing the yeast factory later. Not sure if you can get onto the riverbank there to see that can be seen from that side but might be interesting to see the park from that side.

If you are busy,tomorrow will do!!
Is it possible for you to time yourself running from the car park to the river?

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

If you are busy,tomorrow will do!!
Is it possible for you to time yourself running from the car park to the river?

I'm working later so definately can't do today. Sadly not able to run either.

 

[LucyRocket]

Do we know she’s left handed, Lucy? I thought the same when I heard about the scratches, but couldn’t recall it coming up before.

Good to see you back here by the way, and everyone else too!

Hi Cags. Thanks, and you too.

From her photographs it appears as though she is left handed as

1. Her self-mutilation scars are all on the right arm, meaning she must have used her left hand to make them
2. She holds her glass in her left hand

Cutting and drinking are both usually done with the dominant hand

 

[Newthoughts]

Regarding the short timespan.... I've just been chatting with a friend, we both live in Hull but are not from here originally. At the time Libby went missing she lived within the immediate area and had her back garden searched at the beginning, she said she didn't even know Oak Road Park or fields existed until it was highlighted in the news during her disappearance, but that after that she started taking her young child to the park there so has been there quite a few times. She has been following the trail too and says the timing doesn't concern her at all. She said you can reach the river from the carpark in around 1 minute and that it isn't as far as it looks on the maps.

Thanks.

 

[Vera_dci]

Could the scratches to the left side of the face be from when he was driving. He would be to the right of libby with his left side closest to her.

He mentioned to a friend she unzipped him and tried to kiss him in his car - could he be giving something away with that information. Im very surprised he told his friends he'd even picked libby up.

 

[LucyRocket]

Could the scratches to the left side of the face be from when he was driving. He would be to the right of libby with his left side closest to her.

He mentioned to a friend she unzipped him and tried to kiss him in his car - could he be giving something away with that information. Im very surprised he told his friends he'd even picked libby up.

I have only seen it reported that all of the scratches were to the right side of his face and body

 

[Skigh]

Could the scratches to the left side of the face be from when he was driving. He would be to the right of libby with his left side closest to her.

He mentioned to a friend she unzipped him and tried to kiss him in his car - could he be giving something away with that information. Im very surprised he told his friends he'd even picked libby up.

He was wearing jogging bottoms ,so no zip.