UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

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CoverMeCagney said:
I don’t know, perhaps he wore them on his other little trips prowling the streets.

The judge said in his opening statements that Relowicz was wearing jeans that night.
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A lot of pics of him the press have printed he is 2earing joggers so wonder if that is where the mistake has come from
jamjim said:
16:13
Neighbour recalls seeing Relowicz clean his car 'for the first time' day after Libby vanishes
Brian Thornton says he saw Relowicz cleaning his car on February 1.

He said: “I saw him cleaning his car mats on the pavements with a brush or washing mats. He looked up, unlocked the car, turned the engine on, cleaned the windows and was still doing the mats.

“I only saw him for seconds, I just looked as I was walking down the streets. I didn’t take any particular notice, I had no need to.”

Mr Thornton said he recognised Relowicz as a neighbour. He says: “He had a vacuum cleaner.

“There were two thoughts that came to mind: 1 - it was a bitterly cold day, not one you associate with cleaning a car. 2 - He was lucky to get his car close enough to plug the vacuum cleaner in.”

Mr Thornton has told the court he has never seen Relowicz clean his car before. He says it was around 1.30pm.

Pawel Relowicz told police he 'wanted Libby to be found' - trial
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Wow big bit of evidence
 
CoverMeCagney said:
I don’t know, perhaps he wore them on his other little trips prowling the streets.

The judge said in his opening statements that Relowicz was wearing jeans that night.
Click to expand...
A lot of pics of him the press have printed he is 2earing joggers so wonder if that is where the mistake has come from
jamjim said:
16:13
Neighbour recalls seeing Relowicz clean his car 'for the first time' day after Libby vanishes
Brian Thornton says he saw Relowicz cleaning his car on February 1.

He said: “I saw him cleaning his car mats on the pavements with a brush or washing mats. He looked up, unlocked the car, turned the engine on, cleaned the windows and was still doing the mats.

“I only saw him for seconds, I just looked as I was walking down the streets. I didn’t take any particular notice, I had no need to.”

Mr Thornton said he recognised Relowicz as a neighbour. He says: “He had a vacuum cleaner.

“There were two thoughts that came to mind: 1 - it was a bitterly cold day, not one you associate with cleaning a car. 2 - He was lucky to get his car close enough to plug the vacuum cleaner in.”

Mr Thornton has told the court he has never seen Relowicz clean his car before. He says it was around 1.30pm.

Pawel Relowicz told police he 'wanted Libby to be found' - trial
Click to expand...
Wow big bit of evidence
Newthoughts said:
Haven't they already said they found she was 2 1/2 times over the drink drive limit? No mention at all of drugs.

If she was dead her body wouldn't be breaking down any drugs or alcohol in her system so I imagine they'd stay there as long as they didn't decompose naturally which would still leave traces of component parts.

Likewise her body wasn't getting rid of sperm thank goodness.

Her friends have said she was anti drugs and hadn't taken any and I can't see any reason to disbelieve them. I think they'd have said very early on if she had. They'd be desperate to find her, they'd have given any info they could to facilitate that.

Plus everything that's been said so far fits mild hypothermia. I'm guessing that plus alcohol is enough to explain her behaviour.

We also now know for definite that PR is a liar.
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I tried to look thid point up but got defeated by medical jargon but was definitely left with impression that toxology was not a test where time was of essence. Medical evidence will be soon...
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I find it difficult to believe she found her way through the difficult terrain without tramping it down and leaving traces of blood considering she had bare legs and bits of her clothing caught on the overgrowth.
 
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It doesn't sound like a lot of time, but when you sit and consciously wait for it to pass it seems much longer.

Everything would have happened very fast. If Libby ran off screaming he would have acted quickly to catch up with her and stop her. As for the rape itself, I'm going to speculate that it was over in seconds and that he cannot sustain actual intercourse for long before ejaculation. Just guessing here, but it might be the reason behind him seeking other means of getting his thrills.

Then after the fact we know that he ran out of the park, probably panicking that her screams might have brought people to investigate.

I'm not sure whether he put her in the river right away, it depends on whereabouts they were. He may have prioritised getting away and left her behind a bush temporarily. Then gone back to drop her in the river once he felt confident there was nobody about. He knew where she was and he knew where to go, I think he could manage it in four minutes.
 
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jamjim said:
16:13
Neighbour recalls seeing Relowicz clean his car 'for the first time' day after Libby vanishes
Brian Thornton says he saw Relowicz cleaning his car on February 1.

He said: “I saw him cleaning his car mats on the pavements with a brush or washing mats. He looked up, unlocked the car, turned the engine on, cleaned the windows and was still doing the mats.

“I only saw him for seconds, I just looked as I was walking down the streets. I didn’t take any particular notice, I had no need to.”

Mr Thornton said he recognised Relowicz as a neighbour. He says: “He had a vacuum cleaner.

“There were two thoughts that came to mind: 1 - it was a bitterly cold day, not one you associate with cleaning a car. 2 - He was lucky to get his car close enough to plug the vacuum cleaner in.”

Mr Thornton has told the court he has never seen Relowicz clean his car before. He says it was around 1.30pm.

Pawel Relowicz told police he 'wanted Libby to be found' - trial
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@Quintet I remember you mentioning this, and here it is!

Would love you to be here for the trial!
 
Officer Dibble said:
Interesting line about her taking off her pants in the car. Preparing himself for her possibly being found later with none on and his possible evidence on them?
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Very likely. I was also wondering about "paradoxical undressing," as a possible reaction to hypothermia. The stumbling, slurred speech and odd behaviour noted by witnesses has some overlap with symptoms of hyperthermia as others have noted.

Get Naked and Dig: The Bizarre Effects of Hypothermia | Live Science

Can't recall if there is any evidence of this reported by the ME.

EDIT: many thanks as always to those who have taken the time to add tweets and links to this trial!
 
scapa said:
Very likely. I was also wondering about "paradoxical undressing," as a possible reaction to hypothermia. The stumbling, slurred speech and odd behaviour noted by witnesses has some overlap with symptoms of hyperthermia as others have noted.

Get Naked and Dig: The Bizarre Effects of Hypothermia | Live Science

Can't recall if there is any evidence of this reported by the ME.

EDIT: many thanks as always to those who have taken the time to add tweets and links to this trial!
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This, paradoxical undressing, is usually seen in much worse degrees of hypothermia and doesn't usually start and stop with the knickers.
 
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scapa said:
Very likely. I was also wondering about "paradoxical undressing," as a possible reaction to hypothermia. The stumbling, slurred speech and odd behaviour noted by witnesses has some overlap with symptoms of hyperthermia as others have noted.

Get Naked and Dig: The Bizarre Effects of Hypothermia | Live Science

Can't recall if there is any evidence of this reported by the ME.

EDIT: many thanks as always to those who have taken the time to add tweets and links to this trial!
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - I knew I’d seen something about this on TV once, pretty sure it was in some documentary about preparing for for being lowered in a cage to observe sharks or something & a decompression chamber may have been involved.

The getting on knees position is also interesting given what PR said.
 
bos said:
Thanks for this - I knew I’d seen something about this on TV once, pretty sure it was in some documentary about preparing for for being lowered in a cage to observe sharks or something & a decompression chamber may have been involved.

The getting on knees position is also interesting given what PR said.
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Do you believe a single word of the many different versions that PR has given?
 
mrazda71 said:
This, paradoxical undressing, is usually seen in much worse degrees of hypothermia and doesn't usually start and stop with the knickers.
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“he drove along and she started to undress herself and started taking off her pants“
is what one of PR’s friends said he told him - from that, it can’t definitively be said that she hadn’t taken anything else off before the pants.

As nobody was there to obtain Libby’s core temperature, I don’t think anyone can definitively say to what degree hypothermia was present.
 
Newthoughts said:
Haven't they already said they found she was 2 1/2 times over the drink drive limit? No mention at all of drugs.

If she was dead her body wouldn't be breaking down any drugs or alcohol in her system so I imagine they'd stay there as long as they didn't decompose naturally which would still leave traces of component parts.

Likewise her body wasn't getting rid of sperm thank goodness.

Her friends have said she was anti drugs and hadn't taken any and I can't see any reason to disbelieve them. I think they'd have said very early on if she had. They'd be desperate to find her, they'd have given any info they could to facilitate that.

Plus everything that's been said so far fits mild hypothermia. I'm guessing that plus alcohol is enough to explain her behaviour.

We also now know for definite that PR is a liar.
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Yep, I wasn’t for one moment suggesting she had taken something herself, I was more thinking along the lines of has he given her something to incapacitate\subdue her further (though IMO it sounds like he sadly wouldn’t have needed to) or, as others have suggested, was he just using this to try to slur her character. It’s just strange how it keeps coming up so often in the statements :)
 
mrazda71 said:
Do you believe a single word of the many different versions that PR has given?
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Given his changing story & clearly demonstrable lies, I can’t do anything but treat what he says with scepticism & weigh up the plausibility. That doesn’t mean I’m prepared to dismiss EVERYTHING out of hand; there tend to be shades of grey in my world rather than defined black and white.
 
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