GUILTY UK - Louise Smith, 16, Havant, Hampshire, 8 May 2020 *Arrest*

[Alyce]

Why oh why do the sh**** tabloids insist on saying 'murdered by UNCLE' ... They know he's not her uncle!

Is this all not 'juicy' enough for these gutter rags that they have to try and make it seem more outrageous!

It irks me every time I see it!

Anything for the shock headline as usual. Well that, plus a total ignorance of family tree connections I guess.
I saw one paper the other day who referred to Cj as Louise's Aunt and Cousin

 

[Skigh]

Anything for the shock headline as usual. Well that, plus a total ignorance of family tree connections I guess.
I saw one paper the other day who referred to Cj as Louise's Aunt and Cousin

I say and tried to work out if it was possible to be an aunt and cousin!

 

[Harchmare]

Anything for the shock headline as usual. Well that, plus a total ignorance of family tree connections I guess.
I saw one paper the other day who referred to Cj as Louise's Aunt and Cousin

Technically it's possible: if CJ was Louise's mother's (half)sister AND the daughter of her father's (half)brother or sister, or even a stepsister she calls aunt but who is also her cousin?

Far-fetched, I know... Does anyone know where the paper got that information from?

 

[Alyce]

Technically it's possible: if CJ was Louise's mother's (half)sister AND the daughter of her father's (half)brother or sister, or even a stepsister she calls aunt but who is also her cousin?

Far-fetched, I know... Does anyone know where the paper got that information from?

I think they probably put together the info that Louise was Cjs cousin but referred to her as Aunt ( due to the age difference ) and threw them both in.
This is what also irks me about the media. A bit of basic research would tell them the actual link, but that's probably too much like real work for them.

 

[Harchmare]

I think they probably put together the info that Louise was Cjs cousin but referred to her as Aunt ( due to the age difference ) and threw them both in.
This is what also irks me about the media. A bit of basic research would tell them the actual link, but that's probably too much like real work for them.

And why work hard when the "uncle" storyline is more interesting

Poor Louise who wanted to call them mum and dad... I guess she wanted to be loved and be part of a family.

 

[characternote]

Poor Louise who wanted to call them mum and dad...

That bit breaks my heart a bit. Poor girl just needed a bit of love. Sounds like she was an anxious girl and wasn't really able to catch a break.
I'd be surprised if there were any twists in the case as some people are contemplating.
I know we shouldn't judge people by appearances and stuff, but even when the case first broke and it was just a missing girl case, as soon as I saw that she was young and attractive and that she'd been staying with a couple (and from looking at their pics) I immediately assumed it was likely a rape and murder case. Even posted it in this thread.
It just sounds like he's a bit of an oddball. Probably married CJ as she's the first girl who ever wanted him. And she sounds like she's got her own issues. I don't think she had anything to do with the muder itself. May have lied for him etc, though.
I imagine he was a bit obsessed with having an attractive teenage girl in the house. Likely tried flirting with her. And due to her shy, anxious nature, she probably wasn't that forceful in rejecting him (of course she also wanted a new place to live so had to be careful!) which maybe lead Shane to believe she was interested.
Something happened. He leads her to the woods. Maybe at this point she was forced to physically reject him, and then he's lost it. Raped her. Killed her. Inserted the stick in her as a final act of what he saw as 'revenge' for her likely rejection

 

[Harchmare]

That bit breaks my heart a bit. Poor girl just needed a bit of love. Sounds like she was an anxious girl and wasn't really able to catch a break.
I'd be surprised if there were any twists in the case as some people are contemplating.
I know we shouldn't judge people by appearances and stuff, but even when the case first broke and it was just a missing girl case, as soon as I saw that she was young and attractive and that she'd been staying with a couple (and from looking at their pics) I immediately assumed it was likely a rape and murder case. Even posted it in this thread.
It just sounds like he's a bit of an oddball. Probably married CJ as she's the first girl who ever wanted him. And she sounds like she's got her own issues. I don't think she had anything to do with the muder itself. May have lied for him etc, though.
I imagine he was a bit obsessed with having an attractive teenage girl in the house. Likely tried flirting with her. And due to her shy, anxious nature, she probably wasn't that forceful in rejecting him (of course she also wanted a new place to live so had to be careful!) which maybe lead Shane to believe she was interested.
Something happened. He leads her to the woods. Maybe at this point she was forced to physically reject him, and then he's lost it. Raped her. Killed her. Inserted the stick in her as a final act of what he saw as 'revenge' for her likely rejection

What's sad too is that she WAS loved - by her boyfriend, her friends, the aunt she stayed with for a while, her mum... but her anxiety possibly stopped her from seeing it, or feeling it was enough.

I think your scenario is a likely one. Maybe he lured her to the Thicket with the promise of cannabis, he tried it on with her... I don't think he set out to kill her. I mean as in he got her to the Thicket to kill her. I think he got her there for other reasons and then lashed out when she rejected him. Once she was dead, he wanted to cover it up. I will never understand the stick though.

MOO

 

[Skigh]

What's sad too is that she WAS loved - by her boyfriend, her friends, the aunt she stayed with for a while, her mum... but her anxiety possibly stopped her from seeing it, or feeling it was enough.

I think your scenario is a likely one. Maybe he lured her to the Thicket with the promise of cannabis, he tried it on with her... I don't think he set out to kill her. I mean as in he got her to the Thicket to kill her. I think he got her there for other reasons and then lashed out when she rejected him. Once she was dead, he wanted to cover it up. I will never understand the stick though.

MOO

I think,as someone previously mentioned the stick could have been an attempt to burn her internally. Perhaps he thought that might help completely burn her body to ashes.

 

[characternote]

I will never understand the stick though.

I've heard of similar things in rape cases in documentary programs and stuff i've watched over the years. (one particular case that I seem to remember was of a young boy who raped and killed a female child and inserted sticks inside her after the attack). Stuff like that has also been referenced in certain crime programs over the years (I think 'cracker' with Robbie Coltrane was one of them)

I'm no psychologist, but from reading, I gather that at least in SOME of the cases like that, it's like an act revenge in a way. A kind of 'closure'. The idea that some of these women hating men feel like her vagina gives her so much power - the source of their pain, amplified in cases of unrequited lust. The want to degrade and destroy it

 

[Harchmare]

I think,as someone previously mentioned the stick could have been an attempt to burn her internally. Perhaps he thought that might help completely burn her body to ashes.

The stick as a way to help burn the body internally and destroy evidence, I see the logic in that.

But (just my rambling thoughts):
Would that be the first thing you think of doing when you've just killed someone and you want to cover it up or even destroy evidence? His DNA would be on other parts of her body too. Why not use petrol or bleach or something? Or even bury the body, so it wouldn't be found? As a way of destroying evidence the stick thing seems too "advanced" or "sophisticated", if you know what I mean.

If he wanted the fire to destroy evidence, he probably didn't want the fire to attract too much attention either, so no petrol. And burying the body would maybe take too much time and he was afraid of being seen.

They reported that it was likely an accelerant was used (a lighter?) but that it was difficult to tell because so much time had passed before they discovered the body and no petrol was found, did I remember that correctly? So now I'm wondering just how he thought he could burn a body with a few branches and a lighter... It was said he watched CSI, so he would know about DNA etc, but wouldn't he also know that it wasn't easy to burn a body? Maybe he'd seen something on the telly about a funeral pyre and thought it would be an easy thing to do (especially because he used to make bonfires in the Thicket). Or he thought that was what you did when people died, you have them cremated. Whatever it was, it just feels so clumsy to me.

The body was somewhat hidden if it wasn't found until the 21st... Could he have gone back several times to try and burn the body some more when he went out "searching" for Louise, but he realised it didn't work and gave up, or he couldn't go back after he'd been arrested for kidnapping?

If the main purpose of the stick was to destroy internal evidence, you'd think he'd have set fire to that particular stick first (or to that stick too), wouldn't you? To make sure it caught fire? Was there evidence of fire on that stick? They found his DNA on the stick, so he did't burn it properly, and the "bonfire" was mostly on top of the body, I believe.

For me the stick is (mostly) sexual, as twisted as that is (and even then I can't get my head around it), and the fire a clumsy way to try and cover up what he'd done.

MOO

 

[Harchmare]

I've heard of similar things in rape cases in documentary programs and stuff i've watched over the years. (one particular case that I seem to remember was of a young boy who raped and killed a female child and inserted sticks inside her after the attack). Stuff like that has also been referenced in certain crime programs over the years (I think 'cracker' with Robbie Coltrane was one of them)

I'm no psychologist, but from reading, I gather that at least in SOME of the cases like that, it's like an act revenge in a way. A kind of 'closure'. The idea that some of these women hating men feel like her vagina gives her so much power - the source of their pain, amplified in cases of unrequited lust. The want to degrade and destroy it

That's interesting, thank you. A bit of "You rejected me - now I'll show you" perhaps? The size of the stick though MOO

 

[Sooty]

Regards the use of the stick; the length of it, the fact that it was pointed and given the likelihood that the perpetrator didn’t have much knowledge of gynaecology, I think it could well be some sort of an attempt to perform a primitive abortion. I have feeling we won’t find out for sure however. * This doesn’t mean that Louise had to be pregnant, just that he believed her to have been.
MOO

 

[Bogyo13]

The body was somewhat hidden if it wasn't found until the 21st... Could he have gone back several times to try and burn the body some more when he went out "searching" for Louise, but he realised it didn't work and gave up, or he couldn't go back after he'd been arrested for kidnapping?

Snipped and bolded by me
Very good question!
Didn't he 'search' twice that afternoon /evening?
Also, I can't remember but the day the firemen reported fire, was he already in custody? But if the fire was that recent, they would know I guess? MOO

 

[Harchmare]

Snipped and bolded by me
Very good question!
Didn't he 'search' twice that afternoon /evening?
Also, I can't remember but the day the firemen reported fire, was he already in custody? But if the fire was that recent, they would know I guess? MOO

I would have expected to hear evidence from the fire brigade in that case - then again we still might.

If they had attended the fire, surely they would have found the body?

MOO

 

[Justice4all9]

The defendant didn’t really have much identity it would appear - no phone of his own, no friends, no bank card. He even took his wife’s surname on marriage. It may be through choice (wanting to live a quiet life off radar) or it may be because he was vulnerable in some way ( which appears to be suggested ). Does anyone know if he worked / had an income? If not, it seems he was pretty much invisible ...... strange for a relatively young man.

If you look at his Facebook page under his mums surname it goes some way to explain his habits and behaviour.

 

[Skigh]

Have there been any unsolved attacks on women in the area over the last 10 or more so years?

 

[Justice4all9]

Louise was vulnerable, no judgement intended but that much is true. He said she caused trouble. As a beautiful young woman finally commanding the attention which she was unaccustomed to and clearly craved, muddled with mental health, drugs and alcohol, maybe she did stir stuff up. Maybe she was 'rebelling', maybe she DID flirt with him (although I doubt it, he's vile) regardless of how grown up he she or anyone thought she was, she was a vulnerable child. His crime was absolute rage, you don't do that to someone so young and defenseless unless you are intent on destroying any chance of life. It was overkill violence and degradation, in his mind she really was a trouble maker and he put an end to her. I hope he is never released.

 

[dalsglen]

The stick as a way to help burn the body internally and destroy evidence, I see the logic in that.

But (just my rambling thoughts):
Would that be the first thing you think of doing when you've just killed someone and you want to cover it up or even destroy evidence? His DNA would be on other parts of her body too. Why not use petrol or bleach or something? Or even bury the body, so it wouldn't be found? As a way of destroying evidence the stick thing seems too "advanced" or "sophisticated", if you know what I mean.

If he wanted the fire to destroy evidence, he probably didn't want the fire to attract too much attention either, so no petrol. And burying the body would maybe take too much time and he was afraid of being seen.

They reported that it was likely an accelerant was used (a lighter?) but that it was difficult to tell because so much time had passed before they discovered the body and no petrol was found, did I remember that correctly? So now I'm wondering just how he thought he could burn a body with a few branches and a lighter... It was said he watched CSI, so he would know about DNA etc, but wouldn't he also know that it wasn't easy to burn a body? Maybe he'd seen something on the telly about a funeral pyre and thought it would be an easy thing to do (especially because he used to make bonfires in the Thicket). Or he thought that was what you did when people died, you have them cremated. Whatever it was, it just feels so clumsy to me.

The body was somewhat hidden if it wasn't found until the 21st... Could he have gone back several times to try and burn the body some more when he went out "searching" for Louise, but he realised it didn't work and gave up, or he couldn't go back after he'd been arrested for kidnapping?

If the main purpose of the stick was to destroy internal evidence, you'd think he'd have set fire to that particular stick first (or to that stick too), wouldn't you? To make sure it caught fire? Was there evidence of fire on that stick? They found his DNA on the stick, so he did't burn it properly, and the "bonfire" was mostly on top of the body, I believe.

For me the stick is (mostly) sexual, as twisted as that is (and even then I can't get my head around it), and the fire a clumsy way to try and cover up what he'd done.

MOO

Logically I don't think you would return to a body lying out in the open air multiple times(I wouldn't anyway, but I'd bury it anyway), UK was still in lockdown then weren't we? My nice quiet woodland walks have never been busier than this year, the fear of being caught would be too much. I utterly HATE the thought of the stick being used as an acceleration device but you may well be right.

 

[Harchmare]

For those wanting to catch up: Hampshire Live's recaps.

DAY 1: Monday 16/11 Man admits killing teenager whose body was found in woodland
DAY 2: Tuesday 17/11 Body of teenager was 'unrecognisable' in woodland after killing
DAY 3: Wednesday 18/11 'Vulnerable' teen wanted to call man accused of her murder 'dad'
DAY 4: Thursday 19/11 Alleged murderer seen buying pizza hours after killing teen
DAY 5: Tuesday 24/11 Murder accused told police he'd 'love to know' where Louise Smith was
DAY 6: Wednesday 25/11 Hampshire teen Louise Smith had 'catastrophic' injuries, court hears
DAY 7: Thursday 26/11 Blood on murder suspect's shoe 'highly likely' to be victim's

On Monday the jury will visit different locations in Havant.

Live reporting will resume on Tuesday.

 

[Stumpyaura]

As I drove past one of the entrances to Havant Thicket today I saw two coaches and a large police presence in the carpark and lots of people standing around. It must have been the jury visiting the site - this was about 1.10pm. That would have been a very sobering visit