Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[Taskforce88]

Interesting that Margaret does not appear to be listed as a missing person on police scotlands website anymore. Maybe there has been a confession?


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Interesting. Possibly part of the year long ruse. Make them think that its a missing person inquiry when in fact senior police knew she was already dead.

 

[jessie]

Interesting that Margaret does not appear to be listed as a missing person on police scotlands website anymore. Maybe there has been a confession?


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Wouldn't that require proof of life or proof of death if she was no longer regarded as missing?

 

[jessie]

Carers of missing Margaret Fleming charged with murder

The 36-year-old has not been seen in public since a family gathering in 1999.

https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1400893-carers-of-missing-margaret-fleming-appear-in-court/

 

[Shiressleuth]

Interesting that Margaret does not appear to be listed as a missing person on police scotlands website anymore. Maybe there has been a confession?


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What else could that mean ? She has shown up alive or they have found evidence of her death perhaps?

Eta. Seems to be the latter, as suspected and indicated by the murder charge linked by Jessie.

 

[Taskforce88]

They have evidence of her death then?

 

[Amonet]

Carers of missing Margaret Fleming charged with murder

The 36-year-old has not been seen in public since a family gathering in 1999.

https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1400893-carers-of-missing-margaret-fleming-appear-in-court/

Good!

ETA this is what they're charged with according to that link in the quote

They were also charged with abduction and assault, attempting to defeat the ends of justice and fraud.

 

[Antonia]

Omg arrested means charged! Avril and Eddie can now finally GTF legally.

I have so much respect for the DCI that was like a dog with a bone with this case. I'm sure I posted ages ago about him and I knew 100% there was no way he was letting this one go.

Yes, I remember you saying about the DCI being determined. It was very frustrating that it seemed like nothing was happening and that they might've got away with it. I'm surprised, relieved and saddened to see the long list of charges.

I'm usually okay working out the abbreviations, but 'GTF' has me stumped! What does it stand for, please?

 

[jessie]

Good!

ETA this is what they're charged with according to that link in the quote

Poor, sad Margaret. No one seems to have cared about her. If it were not for the greed of these "carers :furious:" her disappearance would never have been mentioned. I find that heartbreaking.

 

[Legally Bland]

Carers of missing Margaret Fleming charged with murder

The 36-year-old has not been seen in public since a family gathering in 1999.

https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1400893-carers-of-missing-margaret-fleming-appear-in-court/

Wow, I was expecting fraud / financial abuse, maybe preventing a burial.

 

[jiminy]

Wow, I was expecting fraud / financial abuse, maybe preventing a burial.

Same. And I was rationalising to myself that a custodial sentence is a custodial sentence. Given how difficult it is to prove murder without a body, I wonder what the police have? Perhaps a bit of covert listening? The interview they gave recently must have prompted some conversation at home, I feel.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I was expecting concealing a death maybe, but not murder. Planning and killing someone while continuing to claim their benefits as if they were still alive. I can't think that has ever happened before has it?

 

[Taskforce88]

Charged with abduction, assault and murder. How do they know she was abducted, assaulted and then murdered I wonder?

 

[Antonia]

I wonder if the house-sale will cover the benefits they'll have to pay back.

I'm desperately sad for Margaret, no-one missed her for so long.

 

[Taskforce88]

I wonder if the house-sale will cover the benefits they'll have to pay back.

I'm desperately sad for Margaret, no-one missed her for so long.

Its heartbreaking that friends and family never inquired about her.

 

[Antonia]

At court, E & A made no plea. With the case being watertight, does anyone know what happens next under the Scottish system, or how long until a trial date is set?

 

[Taskforce88]

It could be well into 2018 before the trial begins. Not sure when a date will be set.

 

[jessie]

I have some questions for our comrades in Scotland (I'm from Kernow).

There are different regulations/laws in Scotland aren't there? Do the police have to put forward their case before CPS, and provide sufficient evidence to bring a case?

I have basic knowledge of English Law and am interested how it varies in Scotland.

Also how likely, in this case, that the accused will be kept in remand? What is the situation with being released on bail in Scotland for a serious crime?

Excuse my ignorance, I do have more questions but hope these can be answered. TIA

 

[Taskforce88]

I have some questions for our comrades in Scotland (I'm from Kernow).

There are different regulations/laws in Scotland aren't there? Do the police have to put forward their case before CPS, and provide sufficient evidence to bring a case?

I have basic knowledge of English Law and am interested how it varies in Scotland.

Also how likely, in this case, that the accused will be kept in remand? What is the situation with being released on bail in Scotland for a serious crime?

Excuse my ignorance, I do have more questions but hope these can be answered. TIA

A report will be sent from the police to the procurator fiscal, they then determine if there is enough evidence to take it to court. I believe they need 2 independent pieces of evidence, so that will include forensics, DNA, a statement from a witness etc.

For murder and serious crime where there is a danger to the public or a risk of running off then there will be zero chance of bail. They will be in prison until the trial begins.

 

[Satchie]

I was expecting concealing a death maybe, but not murder. Planning and killing someone while continuing to claim their benefits as if they were still alive. I can't think that has ever happened before has it?

A case has been s-l-o-w-l-y unfolding in Australia of a man who murdered a young mother and her toddler, he and his partner then used her identity to steal her benefits over several years, some $100k AUS . The partner successfully impersonated the dead woman at a bank and social services appointments.

I believe that, years later when police closed in, the woman turned over key evidence (a photo he took of the body) in exchange for immunity from prosecution, and therefore this aspect of the murder is no longer being referenced, the prosecution are claiming his motive was a 'love triangle'. I think the motive was her benefits.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/10/27/karlies-identity-stolen-after-murder

 

[jessie]

A report will be sent from the police to the procurator fiscal, they then determine if there is enough evidence to take it to court. I believe they need 2 independent pieces of evidence, so that will include forensics, DNA, a statement from a witness etc.

For murder and serious crime where there is a danger to the public or a risk of running off then there will be zero chance of bail. They will be in prison until the trial begins.

Thank you Taskforce88. Have to admit, even after all these years, WS is a learning curve and so appreciate members' info.

I have been reading this link: http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguidesc/rolecopf.htm

and that helps explain the legal system in Scotland. Popping it here for those members (like me) not in Scotland