Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[Deleted member 178385]

I'm Scottish aged 32 and disabled and have been on Disability Living Allowance for nearly ten years I have just been transferred to Personal Independence Payment. I got an indefinite DLA award in 2006 but was still contacted every three years for an assessment to see if my disability had changed. The assessments are pretty much mandatory and you are advised your benefit may be stopped if you do not attend.

I would have thought the Department for Work and Pensions would have attempted to make contact with Margaret at some point over the years. And asked for her careers to contact them if she was unable to.

Surely defeats the purpose of an indefinite award if it's reassessed as often as that! Maybe it depends on the condition?

In my experience, DWP will try to contact you if they need to reassess you or get more information but they won't go out of their way to track you down if you don't reply after a few letters. They'll be happy just to terminate your claim!

 

[jessie]

I'm Scottish aged 32 and disabled and have been on Disability Living Allowance for nearly ten years I have just been transferred to Personal Independence Payment. I got an indefinite DLA award in 2006 but was still contacted every three years for an assessment to see if my disability had changed. The assessments are pretty much mandatory and you are advised your benefit may be stopped if you do not attend.

I would have thought the Department for Work and Pensions would have attempted to make contact with Margaret at some point over the years. And asked for her careers to contact them if she was unable to.

Are there many differences between Scotland and England re. these assessments do you know?
Do the DWP physically visit or insist that a claimant must attend to be assessed?
I wondered if it was just a question of filling out another form, lthat doesn't require checking up personally on the claimant.

 

[jessie]

Is it likely that her carers reported her missing after the visit by the police on a "social services matter" ? IYKWIM ?

A few conflicting reports in MSM etc about how it was discovered she was missing.
Time will tell no doubt when more is known exactly how it came about.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

Are there many differences between Scotland and England re. these assessments do you know?
Do the DWP physically visit or insist that a claimant must attend to be assessed?
I wondered if it was just a question of filling out another form, lthat doesn't require checking up personally on the claimant.

As far as I know, the process for DLA claims would have been the same in England and Scotland, as it wasn't a devolved matter in Scotland at that time (DLA is in the process of being replaced by PIP though, which will be devolved, so it's a different story altogether!).

Face-to-face assessments aren't always required they usually take place in an assessment centre rather than the claimant's home. Whether a face-to-face is needed will depend on the type of condition and supporting medical evidence provided in the initial application form (which is very long!) As gregjrichards said, if you are invited to an in-person assessment you do have to go, or they will stop your benefit.

I notice the earlier linked article states:

"Insiders say Department for Work and Pensions officials raised the alarm with police after an application for an enhanced carers allowance for Margaret Fleming. "

and

"It is understood police were alerted after a "social services" inquiry failed to find any trace of Margaret since she was 19. "

So it's nothing to do with DLA, but something to do with a claim for extra carer money.

Are they suggesting that DWP asked local social services to look into her? I wonder why they would do that...

And I've no idea what 'enhanced carers allowance' is. Anyone heard of it?

 

[Deleted member 178385]

Is it likely that her carers reported her missing after the visit by the police on a "social services matter" ? IYKWIM ?

A few conflicting reports in MSM etc about how it was discovered she was missing.
Time will tell no doubt when more is known exactly how it came about.

Seems to be the case:

"Police officers had gone to Ms Fleming's house on 28 October about a social work issue.

Her carers - a man in his 70s and a woman in her 50s who were close family friends - said she had left that day. They later reported her missing."

BBC article.

 

[Jennibee]

Home assessments only take place if the person is too ill to leave their home.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jessie]

As far as I know, the process for DLA claims would have been the same in England and Scotland, as it wasn't a devolved matter in Scotland at that time <snipped>

"Insiders say Department for Work and Pensions officials raised the alarm with police after an application for an enhanced carers allowance for Margaret Fleming. "

and

"It is understood police were alerted after a "social services" inquiry failed to find any trace of Margaret since she was 19. "

So it's nothing to do with DLA, but something to do with a claim for extra carer money.

Are they suggesting that DWP asked local social services to look into her? I wonder why they would do that...

And I've no idea what 'enhanced carers allowance' is. Anyone heard of it?

This link :
http://www.focusondisability.org.uk/personal-independence-payment-PIP-assessment-points.html
lists the points system of DLA and it would seem an increase in points (assistance needed for daily living)
would be necessary for an 'Enhanced Allowance'.

Possibly they applied for the higher rate and in that case personal assessment was required?

 

[Deleted member 178385]

This link :
http://www.focusondisability.org.uk/personal-independence-payment-PIP-assessment-points.html
lists the points system of DLA and it would seem an increase in points (assistance needed for daily living)
would be necessary for an 'Enhanced Allowance'.

Possibly they applied for the higher rate and in that case personal assessment was required?

Yup, but that's referring to the enhanced rates of PIP (replacement for DLA) which would be paid to the claimant (Margaret) - and not Carers Allowance which would be paid to a carer. They may well be referring to a reconsideration request to get a higher rate of PIP, but the article would be incorrect in describing that as carers allowance. The only other thing I can think of is the local authority Direct Payments that I mentioned in an earlier post. But I don't think that would involve DWP, as it's a local government thing.

It's probably not that important a detail to worry about ... the main point is that a request for extra care-related money was made and that led to an investigation which led to the police turning up on her doorstep

 

[Deleted member 178385]

"Police probing the disappearance of an Inverclyde woman last seen in public in 1999 have said visitors to the house where she lived had not seen her.

A number of people told police they visited the house in Inverkip either to socialise or through their work, but had not seen Margaret Fleming."

From BBC article

 

[Deleted member 178385]

And "Margaret Fleming mystery: Close pal of carer couple says she never met missing woman at their house" in Daily Record.

ETA:
&#8220;Margaret didn&#8217;t go on the holidays with us. I never saw her at the house. When we went to their house we sat in the living room.

&#8220;There could have been someone else upstairs, I don&#8217;t know.

&#8220;I did hear Avril mention Margaret once because she hadn&#8217;t went to college or something.&#8221;

Rosemary added: &#8220;Avril and Edward are two of the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. I don&#8217;t believe anything sinister has gone on.

&#8220;But I was shocked when I read about the police search.&#8221;

 

[Al Ka]

As far as I know, the process for DLA claims would have been the same in England and Scotland, as it wasn't a devolved matter in Scotland at that time (DLA is in the process of being replaced by PIP though, which will be devolved, so it's a different story altogether!).

As far as I am aware DLA in England was renamed to ESA few years back. Every 3 month you have to see GP and send notes to DWP. Once a year is face to face reassessment with health commission. Anyone on ESA with more severe disabilities can request for PIP award, extra payments. If they refuse to award you with PIP though, they might also cancel other benefits. If you are late or not send any 3 month paperwork, you are cancelled as well. As far as I heard all is pretty strict.

Few month back I have seen that there was discussion by MPs to make some changes for severely disabled, so they do not have to drug themselves to GP every 3 month. Not sure what updates are on that. I am also not sure about life awards in England though.

I notice the earlier linked article states:

"Insiders say Department for Work and Pensions officials raised the alarm with police after an application for an enhanced carers allowance for Margaret Fleming. "

and

"It is understood police were alerted after a "social services" inquiry failed to find any trace of Margaret since she was 19. "

So it's nothing to do with DLA, but something to do with a claim for extra carer money.

Are they suggesting that DWP asked local social services to look into her? I wonder why they would do that...

Benefit Fraud investigation...
It was mentioned that there were no health of welfare records for Margaret. DWP's paperwork simply did not add up and they triggered investigation of the case.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

As far as I am aware DLA in England was renamed to ESA few years back. Every 3 month you have to see GP and send notes to DWP. Once a year is face to face reassessment with health commission. Anyone on ESA with more severe disabilities can request for PIP award, extra payments. If they refuse to award you with PIP though, they might also cancel other benefits. If you are late or not send any 3 month paperwork, you are cancelled as well. As far as I heard all is pretty strict.

DLA (Disability Living Allowance) is being replaced by PIP (Personal Independence Payment) - it's available to anyone with a long-term disability or illness, regardless of their employment status etc.

ESA is Employment and Support Allowance (used to be Incapacity Benefit) and is for those unable to work or who need support to get into work.

Agree that both are strict in terms of getting back to them with requested information or assessments.

Also agree with suggestion of benefit fraud investigation!

 

[Ironside]

I'm really starting to wonder could there be more to this missing woman than benefit fraud after an accidental or natural death. The dig reminds me of when police were digging for Heather West who happened to have been horrifically abused for years before being murdered.

 

[Lolabear]

Whatever the outcome I find it most disturbing that someone can be totally unseen and unheard of for 17 years without a single person or agency looking for them.
It really is so sad...and I still think it's the carers who've done something to her.

 

[Purplepixii]

The female carer's FB page has nothing of interest, can't find the male's nor Margaret's. Poor Margaret - where are you?

 

[JerricaBenton]

I wonder if these digs will reveal anything.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

In a lengthy article in the Record today Rosemary Connolly, who had known the carer couple for 30 years:

“We would go off on holidays with them for three and four weeks to places I had never dreamed of going.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/margaret-fleming-mystery-close-pal-9453145

It seems obvious to me that whatever happened to Margaret must have happened before the first of the lengthy holidays taken by the carers, with or without Rosemary.

 

[Ontario Mom]

And "Margaret Fleming mystery: Close pal of carer couple says she never met missing woman at their house" in Daily Record.

ETA:
“Margaret didn’t go on the holidays with us. I never saw her at the house. When we went to their house we sat in the living room.

“There could have been someone else upstairs, I don’t know.

“I did hear Avril mention Margaret once because she hadn’t went to college or something.”

Rosemary added: “Avril and Edward are two of the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. I don’t believe anything sinister has gone on.

“But I was shocked when I read about the police search.”

Also from that same link:

Rosemary, who has been friends with 56-year-old Avril for almost 30 years, also went off on month-long holidays with her and 75-year-old Edward, she revealed.

How do you go on month long holidays without the person you're caring for, that has been reported to need day-to-day assistance? How can you be a friend of someone's for nearly 30 years, be in there home, and NEVER see the person they're supposed to be caring for? EVER. Not once?

Poor Margaret I think she's been gone a very, very long time.

 

[Purplepixii]

From the Daily Fail

"Edward had a lot of money. He had properties and businesses."

Might be more digging to be done perhaps.

 

[Dogface]

Just marking my spot, so sad how people can simply fall through the cracks of a system. Praying that she is found okay.