Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[mumofboys93]

I believe her body was destroyed and the remains buried in the garden.

I fear you are correct.
This calculated pair knew exactly what they were doing. It’s a farce that they got away with it for so long.
Those photographs of Margaret with her hair shaved are haunting

 

[tresir2012]

The evil pair did not show any emotion yesterday at the High Court in Glasgow after being convicted of the callous crime.

[...]

Following the jury’s verdicts after a six-week-long trial, Cairney – who had been on bail – was taken down to the cells in his wheelchair.

Jones – who deliberately got herself remanded before the trial after calling police to admit she was breaking her own bail conditions – needed her crutches to help her as she was led away by guards.

[...]

Sentencing on the pair was postponed for reports.

Margaret Fleming: Her callous killers face dying behind bars

Deliberately got herself remanded after calling police to admit she was breaking her own bail conditions. Anyone ever heard of this before? Was she scared of Cairney? How strange.

 

[tresir2012]

I fear you are correct.
This calculated pair knew exactly what they were doing. It’s a farce that they got away with it for so long.
Those photographs of Margaret with her hair shaved are haunting

I agree - her hair looks like Cairney's in those pictures doesn't it?

 

[mumofboys93]

Deliberately got herself remanded after calling police to admit she was breaking her own bail conditions. Anyone ever heard of this before? Was she scared of Cairney? How strange.

I think she must have been scared of him, he applied for bail and got it. She clearly did not want to be anywhere near him.
Look at Cairney's demeanour in the video in this article, a snippet of his police interview.
He is smirking and saying no comment to serious allegations. I think that sums up the type of person he is..

Carers guilty of murdering missing teenager

 

[mumofboys93]

I agree - her hair looks like Cairney's in those pictures doesn't it?

It does resemble his!
She just looks so flat and in her shell in these pictures. Her whole body is deflated and she is not a happy girl in them.
Don’t understand how anyone could have not reported this?
I know hindsight is a great thing, but if I had concerns about a vulnerable person who had their hair shaved, looked down amongst other red flags (duct taped wrists etc) I’m sure I would have said something to someone?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It does resemble his!
She just looks so flat and in her shell in these pictures. Her whole body is deflated and she is not a happy girl in them.
Don’t understand how anyone could have not reported this?
I know hindsight is a great thing, but if I had concerns about a vulnerable person who had their hair shaved, looked down amongst other red flags (duct taped wrists etc) I’m sure I would have said something to someone?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as we know. But you're right - there were plenty of red flags in this case which others should have picked up on - social services, the NHS, the benefits system, neighbours, friends, family and even Margaret's own mother. She was literally wanted by no-one and cared about by no-one. Depressingly tragic, really. Makes you wonder how many other "Margarets" are just forgotten about somewhere.

 

[tresir2012]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as we know. But you're right - there were plenty of red flags in this case which others should have picked up on - social services, the NHS, the benefits system, neighbours, friends, family and even Margaret's own mother. She was literally wanted by no-one and cared about by no-one. Depressingly tragic, really. Makes you wonder how many other "Margarets" are just forgotten about somewhere.

I think her mother said she contacted the police about the visit when she saw Cairney and he assaulted her, and they were supposed to have gone round and Margaret wanted to stay, I think. Can't remember now exactly whether she said it in court or if it was in the media. Anyone remember that?>

 

[Antonia]

I think her mother said she contacted the police about the visit when she saw Cairney and he assaulted her, and they were supposed to have gone round and Margaret wanted to stay, I think. Can't remember now exactly whether she said it in court or if it was in the media. Anyone remember that?>

Yes, it was said in court and reported in this BBC article:
Woman 'assaulted' by murder accused
Apparently the police checked and said that Margaret was okay.

Unfortunately, it's all too easy to imagine that while EC and AJ were telling Margaret's mother that she didn't want to see her, they were telling Margaret that her mother didn't want to see her/no-one wanted her. It's desperately sad that they were able to manipulate the situation so that no-one checked on Margaret properly any more.

 

[Laughing]

JMHO, but with the review of all cases of dependent adults mentioned above, I expect that a missed medical appointment will result in a phone call to reschedule, maybe twice; if still no appointment, social worker calls at listed address; no face-to-face with dependent adult, suspension of benefits plus LE goes in, placement evaluated.

Tearing up that garden within 18 months of Margaret's "disappearance" might have had different results.

Other than avoiding much of the financial fraud!

RIP, Margaret!

 

[mumofboys93]

JMHO, but with the review of all cases of dependent adults mentioned above, I expect that a missed medical appointment will result in a phone call to reschedule, maybe twice; if still no appointment, social worker calls at listed address; no face-to-face with dependent adult, suspension of benefits plus LE goes in, placement evaluated.

Tearing up that garden within 18 months of Margaret's "disappearance" might have had different results.

Other than avoiding much of the financial fraud!

RIP, Margaret!

I guess as well that services in Scotland, as well as the UK, are over stretched too. Many services don’t have the means to check on every person who may be avoiding them deliberately or not.
I would love to think that this case may flag up others, even if it is just someone thinking about another person they haven’t seen or heard from in a while to check up on them.

Yes, it was said in court and reported in this BBC article:
Woman 'assaulted' by murder accused
Apparently the police checked and said that Margaret was okay.

Unfortunately, it's all too easy to imagine that while EC and AJ were telling Margaret's mother that she didn't want to see her, they were telling Margaret that her mother didn't want to see her/no-one wanted her. It's desperately sad that they were able to manipulate the situation so that no-one checked on Margaret properly any more.

It’s such a sad thought that Margaret suffered physically and mentally in her last months of life. She must have felt so scared, sad and hopeless. And there has been no remorse shown for her demise.
On the other hand, her ‘carers’ seem to have enjoyed spending her money and EC in particular seems to enjoy the fact they got away with this for so long.

 

[mumofboys93]

Fiancée of slain Margaret Fleming's late dad hopes killers 'burn in hell'

So this is new information to me.
I wasn’t aware of MFs dad having a fiancée before he passed away.
But she did give an interesting insight in the article!

 

[Legally Bland]

Doesn't seem very long, but at times at times it seemed there was never going to be any sort of justice. I guess it's as good as a life sentence for Cairney.
________________

At the High Court in Glasgow Lord Matthews told Cairney he must serve at least 14 years.

Jones' minimum life tariff was also set at 14 years.

[...]

Thomas Ross QC, for Cairney, said his wheelchair bound client had his colon removed a few years ago after he contracted an infection.

He also suffers from hip damage and the after effects of breaking three vertebrate.

Mr Ross said: "Mr Cairney continues to deny any involvement in the crime and, so far as he is concerned, he maintains that, to his knowledge, Margaret is still alive."

Iain Duguid QC, for Jones, said his client was diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy, a condition which affects the nervous system, in 1994.

The court heard the case has left Jones, a former legal secretary and greenkeeper, "isolated" from her friends and family.

The QC said his client also maintains her innocence and that, as recent their last contact in October 2017, Margaret was still alive.

Carers jailed for murdering teenager

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I agree, LB, there were times I thought this pair would get away with it and I'd have been spitting feathers at the injustice.

They'll be 91 and 73 by the time they're eligible to be released and it's very unlikely they'd be a threat to anyone. I'd have preferred a longer sentence but it will do in the absence of evidence.

Rest in Peace, Margaret.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

(still wondering whether Avril will blab)

 

[guruagain]

There should be no chance of parole unless they say where her body is.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

There should be no chance of parole unless they say where her body is.

They're bringing in Helen's Law, but I've just checked and it only applies to England & Wales.

In 2015, Helen McCourt's mother, Marie, began a campaign to change the law regarding the conviction of killers such as Simms, requiring them to reveal the whereabouts of their victim's remains before being considered for parole. The campaign led to the announcement of plans to introduce a "Helen's Law" in May 2019.

and

In May 2019, the UK's Ministry of Justice announced plans to change the law regarding parole to place "greater consideration on failure to disclose the location of a victim's remains". In such cases as that of the murder of Helen McCourt, where a conviction is secured without the presence of a body, Helen's Law would require a person convicted of murder to reveal the location of their victim's remains before being considered for parole.[18] On 5 July 2019, Secretary of State for Justice David Gauke confirmed the law would be adopted in England and Wales.[19]

Source:Wiki

 

[Cagle]

Edward Cairney, 77, and Avril Jones, 59, will serve a minimum of 14 years behind bars for the murder of 19-year-old Margeret Fleming.

Ms Fleming, who had learning difficulties, vanished "from the face of the earth" around December 1999. Her body has never been found.

The pair were sentenced at Glasgow’s High Court on Wednesday, following a seven-week trial.


Carers jailed for murder of teen Margaret Fleming 20 years ago

 

[Ironside]

(still wondering whether Avril will blab)

I really thought she was going to crack when I saw the infamous interview but at this stage I doubt she will. She is still maintaining she saw Margaret in 2017!

She is a total idiot as she could have easily played the "my bully partner made me do it" card and might have got a small bit of sympathy had she blabbed.

I can't wait for the documentary about this case, hopefully it will be on soon.

 

[bluebird69]

Was AJ Not also sentenced for fraud?

 

[Legally Bland]

Was AJ Not also sentenced for fraud?

4 years to be served concurrently.

There's a video of the sentencing here:

Watch moment judge jails Margaret Fleming killers after callous 'web of deceit'