Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #11

[Cranky]

Sorry, I don't know how to put a small map photo up and the technical help has gone to bed. I've put a link to the path along the river at the back of Rowan Water up on the previous page and a thumbnail photo further down so that you can see what the river looks like before it gets to the bench and the path alongside the river.

 

[Furore]

The river is not uniform depth - it’s shallower at the sides - if you watch footage of the river you can see the stones on the bottom at the banks.

Deep hole - is what it says.

Round the bend there’s a shallower bit where you can walk across (near Hall Lane) you can see it on Google map.

Then there’s the weir, and after that it gets shallower - so much so that PF’s dinghy ran aground and they had to pick it up and carry it.

Yes but the river is tidal below the weir, and this was also well after a week that she vanished.

I fundamentally mistrust PF, I think he is excellent at his sonar job and many other things, but no true scientist says things are impossible, or that their equipment is infallible, despite not charging Nicola’s family for his time, he will have received thousands for the podcasts and interviews he is doing, and he seriously misrepresents a number of things to cast himself as the One True Voice.

All MOO but I would take a lot of subjective evidence from him with a pinch of salt.

 

[Beckxsy]

See the things is .... The media part of Mr.Faulding , alrhough rather unpleasant , is least concerning .
I am personally far more interested in the fact that neither him and his team nor the SAR teams which were on the scene within hours from NB's disappearance have found any evidence whatsoever in the 1 mile upstream and down to the weir from the bench area, repeatedly searched for days .
Despite all the wondeful sleuthing that has gone on with regards to water level , buoyancy , flow , speed , depth , sonar capabilities ...it might instead be simply more logical that , if in the water , she may have not entered it where it has been assumed she did , which is before the weir , thus nullifying the search operations.

This is sometimes the result of trying to fit facts to a preconceived idea of what happened.
We stop looking , we stop thinking .

They wasn't on the scene within hours of the dissapearance. Some days after I believe and also police informed 11am and I'm not sure at what time divers went into the water after that point

 

[AgathapisdT]

I do understand that the river is flowing which is obvious. Also i understand how buoyancy works. However her body is not buoyant when/if she drowned, it would fill with water and sink. She would only become buoyant when her body released gasses. You are saying that her body would become buoyant straight awayand move down the river? That river flow is way to slow to move a drowned body is what im trying to say.

Awful to even think it - I am no expert btw...

Logic A : Accident - Bodies will move according to temperature and waterflow. If caught somewhere sadly, there may never be an outcome or closure.

Non Logic B : Abduction/Murder - no theory, how could that be possible? Have been round multiple if's and maybe's and still come up with nought.

Non Logic C : Planned for whatever reason - nope, (caveat, never say never).

Really hope there may be another alternative. however, I sadly think Nicola had an unfortunate accident. I also hope that there will be repercussions over the social media interest in this incident that may have hindered any investigations. My thoughts are with all her loved ones.

 

[tedtink]

There are a lot of posts saying how deep the water was where she may or may not have gone in.

Prove that the water was high on that day and at that time?

"He [Peter Faulding] shows me a picture on his mobile phone of how shallow the water is at the spot where Nicola’s mobile phone was left, and where the police believe she might have entered the river.

‘It’s even more shallow now but on the day it would have been around two feet deep, if she slipped she would have gone in and hit rock very quickly and been up to her thigh, that’s all,’ he says. ‘This is not drowning territory.’

He also disagrees with the suggestion that she might have hit her head on a rock and lost consciousness, and that her body could have been washed round the river bend to the nearby weir...."

Dive expert makes huge claim about Nicola Bulley's disappearance

KATHRYN KNIGHT: Peter Faulding has amassed a number of impressive qualifications in the course of his life, but he has one particular talent for which there is no formal certificate.

www.dailymail.co.uk

PF said it was 2 ft deep at the bank.
He then went on to say it was 4 mtrs deep in the middle (GB NEWS INTERVIEW), where NB was alleged to have gone in. <modsnip>

 

[martinwatts5]

Yes but the river is tidal below the weir, and this was also well after a week that she vanished.

I fundamentally mistrust PF, I think he is excellent at his sonar job and many other things, but no true scientist says things are impossible, or that their equipment is infallible, despite not charging Nicola’s family for his time, he will have received thousands for the podcasts and interviews he is doing, and he seriously misrepresents a number of things to cast himself as the One True Voice.

All MOO but I would take a lot of subjective evidence from him with a pinch of salt.

I don’t know how much he made from his media appearances but in my opinion he was just trying to get as much publicity for his company as possible. I suppose he knew if he made interesting comments there would be more coming after him for interviews.

 

[Just-a-random-girl]

There is this other case of a 23 year old Thomas Procter Cook of Garstang who went in the River Wyre in 1935. He was seen been "washed away" while fishing. Also appears to be near-ish the same area, although don't know exact point. Articles state the body essentially vanished, the police and the boy scouts dragged the river until midnight after he went in. No sign. After this they searched "Dawn and Day", 15 miles St Michael's to Great Ecclestone. The coroner stated the place he went in was "treacherous", it was difficult to stay upright and concluded the boy either fell in or had some sort of "attack" (e.g. blackout). He described the whole thing as "pure accident".

He was found a few days later, not sure where, but IMO it does raise questions about PF's assertions that drowning victims don't move far. And this is the same river.

Sources: Home | Search the archive | British Newspaper Archive

 

[Deleted member 320164]

Yes but the river is tidal below the weir, and this was also well after a week that she vanished.

I fundamentally mistrust PF, I think he is excellent at his sonar job and many other things, but no true scientist says things are impossible, or that their equipment is infallible, despite not charging Nicola’s family for his time, he will have received thousands for the podcasts and interviews he is doing, and he seriously misrepresents a number of things to cast himself as the One True Voice.

All MOO but I would take a lot of subjective evidence from him with a pinch of salt.

I don’t disagree that hard and fast claims are problematic. I take PF’s certainty with a pinch of salt. However the whining about him bores me. He got of his arse to look for her while the naysayers sit on the Internet typing.

 

[wackyw]

He then went on to say it was



I don’t disagree that hard and fast claims are problematic. I take PF’s certainty with a pinch of salt. However the whining about him bores me. He got of his arse to look for her while the naysayers sit on the Internet typing.

Did I mention PF in that post ?

 

[Jamees]

It’s interesting to me that the anglers in that fishing club have specifically named Swim 7 “Deep Hole”. They have named it that for a reason.

As someone who goes fishing regularly, deep holes are not uncommon and often they are filled with roots. It’s a good place to lose your hook or a fish. Anglers will often call Swims a name to warn other anglers to keep an eye on roots/holes etc.

Has this hole been searched? Has it even been flagged up? I don’t think it’s out of the question if someone fell into an underwater hole and sunk they might not wash out due to roots or other debris.

 

[ayrshireguy]

He then went on to say it was



I don’t disagree that hard and fast claims are problematic. I take PF’s certainty with a pinch of salt. However the whining about him bores me. He got of his arse to look for her while the naysayers sit on the Internet typing.

Yep. Peter Faulding went and helped and will in the end probably be proven correct.

 

[AgathapisdT]

He then went on to say it was



I don’t disagree that hard and fast claims are problematic. I take PF’s certainty with a pinch of salt. However the whining about him bores me. He got of his arse to look for her while the naysayers sit on the Internet typing.

He did, and I applaud him for that and all expenses he may have incurred. He also did it at the families wishes. He may be an expert in his craft - that does not give him entitlement to cross boundaries on LE investigations. IMO

 

[CriLondon]

They wasn't on the scene within hours of the dissapearance. Some days after I believe and also police informed 11am and I'm not sure at what time divers went into the water after that point

SAR teams were at the scene later in the afternoon , afair .
PF ans his team arrived a few days later yes .

I thought at this point this was common knowledge , thus not needing a link for discourse purposes .

If so , please be kind , i'm at work and on mobile , allow some time )

 

[Deleted member 320164]

There is this other case of a 23 year old Thomas Procter Cook of Garstang who went in the River Wyre in 1935. He was seen been "washed away" while fishing. Also appears to be near-ish the same area, although don't know exact point. Articles state the body essentially vanished, the police and the boy scouts dragged the river until midnight after he went in. No sign. After this they searched "Dawn and Day", 15 miles St Michael's to Great Ecclestone. The coroner stated the place he went in was "treacherous", it was difficult to stay upright and concluded the boy either fell in or had some sort of "attack" (e.g. blackout). He described the whole thing as "pure accident".

He was found a few days later, not sure where, but IMO it does raise questions about PF's assertions that drowning victims don't move far. And this is the same river.

Sources: Home | Search the archive | British Newspaper Archive

Where did he fall in and where was he found?

Interesting that he was found a few days later without sonar.

 

[pineapple23]

Has this hole been searched? Has it even been flagged up? I don’t think it’s out of the question if someone fell into an underwater hole and sunk they might not wash out due to roots or other debris.

I can't remember if they consulted with the local angling association. You would hope so.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Doubt it to be honest. I stand by my gut feeling that the river is too slowly flowing in that area to move her downstream quickly enough without either catching on the river bed or washed up on the sides or on the weir. If i fell into water with or without clothes on i would sink.

I agree with your gut, The Truth Is.

IMO, from what I've read the river was mainly shallow and slow moving along where Nicola typically walked the dog, and the riverbank was not that steep that it would cause her to "go in" (even with "slippery stones" leading down from the bench to the water, even with a bouncy dog who "led her on a merry chase" to the water for some unknown reason, none of which has been stated in MSM).

Although there were a few deeper and faster moving spots along the river, including right below the bench (#7 on the angler maps) where her phone and dog were "later discovered" nearby, it doesn't seem likely at all to me that she was right there and during or just after her work meeting on her phone did some kind of header into the drink she couldn't recover from, especially if she was very familiar with the area and was a competent swimmer as has been attested to in MSM by family/friends. There have also been no reports that she or her dog would go into the water in that area on a regular basis, especially in winter, but they may have gone to a shallow beach area in warm weather and maybe the dog went in after a stick or whatever on a usual basis then/there?

And apparently, her dog did nothing in the way of "jumping in after her" if she "fell in" since the dog was dry when observed later on (within 2 hours?). IME, all of the dogs I've ever known of many different breeds in many different situations where they were near or in water continued to have some wetness remain in their coat, undercoat(s), and paws that lasted awhile (several hours), and that wetness not only attracts dirt, sand, mud to stick to their paws that needs to be cleaned off with some resentment at towels and rags and rubbing, but they "stink like wet dog" for a long while (up to days depending).

So to me, it doesn't sound like her dog was able to react to whatever happened to her, if she ended up in the river, with any physical response that would be likely, and was instead "focused on" running back and forth between the bench and gate as reported, where Nicola probably did go askance, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 320164]

Did I mention PF in that post ?

I was replying to @Furore and messed up the quote.

 

[EvaP]

Question - can you or anyone link to a drowning where someone was found circa 11 miles down the river 2 weeks later.

Because bodies don’t generally seem to make that kind of progress even in large fast-flowing tidal rivers.

Nope - chap who disappeared in the river near me went past two weirs and round an ox bow travelling at most a mile possibly less in two weeks

 

[AgathapisdT]

The faults of the early days can’t be fixed so we all have to hope she’s found in the river.

I would rather hope she was found alive.

 

[Charlie Hunt]

Which camera? Is it one owned by the Council

The cctv camera near the tow line. If it was in my town I’d call the city council to see who is responsible for those cameras. Is it the town, the region or is it national? Anyhow it’s likely to be contracted out to a company. They should be able to tell us when the camera was noticed to not be working.