Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #15

[CJS83]

The more I think about it, what I don’t understand is why the police didn’t say from the start that Nicola had private health issues that made them think an accidental fall into the river might be more likely than a typical 45 year old woman — if that’s what they were thinking because of drinking and menopause problems.

They may have also thought suicide more likely than for the average mother-of-two too, but they didn’t need to get into that level of detail. They just needed to say, we understand the public’s concern but there’s a reason we think she might have had an accident by the river.

I do feel LE have done what they can with this investigation and were in such a tricky situation with the public handling of this case.

Different (supposed) friends briefing contradictory statements, other high profile 3rd parties involved.
Unprecedented - it feels like to me, anyway - interest from the wider media and social media, including all varieties and abilities of amateur journalists, sleuths, river experts.

Seems like this case has been fueled by wider societal mistrust in authority, expertise, or 'MSM'.
And more specifically the Sarah Everard tragedy which has never really left our consciousness (nor the news) a reminder that quite rightly LE cannot always be trusted without question.

I don't think that LE have driven this narrative, feels like an unstoppable consequence of social media (& some more z-list MSM personalities and gutter press) not respecting Nicola's nor the family's personal boundaries themselves.

ETA: PS - no question in my mind of the children ever being at risk of removal in the situation as we know it. But it may not feel like that to a parent when a social worker completes a pretty routine follow up from a PPN.

PPS - a made a comment previously, which was rightly snipped, about hoping that certain people would have some more respect now. To be clear, I didn't mean anyone here! I was referring to those driving sm clicks from this story, baiting headlines, and the likes of Jeremy Kyle TV 'specials' - a man who has made his entire career from other people's misery - yuk.

 

[Beginnersleuth]

Thank you, that's really helpful information. And though we might never know for sure, it does appear to be something that would fit the information that has been released so far. Potentially losing your children would also be a big red flag for someone possibly harming themself.

Only happens in very severe situations and would be always short term in the first instance and placed with family preferably.
Most people investigated for child
Safeguarding are not guilty of anything and it’s very stressful, their child is removed immediately and returned within 24h. Or to family/foster care if concerns ongoing.
If in the very unlikely event that a long way down the road she would lose her kids, they would be placed with their Dad and allowed supervised contact and if due to alcohol/depression problems they’d look at rehabilitation and full contact or shared custody over time.
If you’re depressed though things can seem very out of proportion

 

[jackal67]

We don;t know why police attended on the 10th. Hospitalisation might have been considered totally inappropriate

exactly and as I posted earlier the statement by LP said it was a call of concern for welfare at NBs home address. It did not say who's welfare though did it

 

[bringmeacupoft]

I have watched the Sky News clip of Kay Burley doing NB's final walk and I am confused - Kay referred to there being two visits by authorities to the family home on both 10th and 17th January. Does anybody know if this is correct? I thought that there was only one. She said 'and a medical team went to the home on 17th January.'

Bulley investigation: Kay Burley retraces Nicola's last known dog walk

Kay Burley retraces Nicola Bulley's last known dog walk live from St. Michael's on Wyre, Lancashire, with all the latest from the investigation into the disappearance three weeks ago.

news.sky.com

Which point in the clip?

I only heard her reference the 17th continuing on from the other guy who said the 10th - I think she misspoke IMO

 

[jackal67]

In their press release, LP said the welfare check was due to NBs problems. So the logical assumption would either be that it was a check on NB, or a check on PA because of something NBs problems might have caused her to do. I'd guess the former.

I don't think that was what LP said in the press release.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

I do feel LE have done what they can with this investigation and were in such a tricky situation with the public handling of this case.

Different (supposed) friends briefing contradictory statements, other high profile 3rd parties involved.
Unprecedented - it feels like to me, anyway - interest from the wider media and social media, including all varieties and abilities of amateur journalists, sleuths, river experts.

Seems like this case has been fueled by wider societal mistrust in authority, expertise, or 'MSM'.
And more specifically the Sarah Everard tragedy which has never really left our consciousness (nor the news) a reminder that quite rightly LE cannot always be trusted without question.

I don't think that LE have driven this narrative, feels like an unstoppable consequence of social media (& some more z-list MSM personalities and gutter press) not respecting Nicola's nor the family's personal boundaries themselves.

PS - no question in my mind of the children ever being at risk of removal in the situation as we know it. But it may not feel like that to a parent when a social worker completes a pretty routine follow up from a PPN.

It will be interesting to see how this all looks once the dust has settled.

I’m still not “outraged” by the disclosures the police have made, and see why they did it up to a point, but wonder if specifics necessary given such private information and at this later stage.

I do think instead of saying “Nicola’s reputation has been ruined” then people in the media should be expressing nothing but sympathy for health problems. They’re kind of the ones denigrating her reputation with the reaction.

 

[Jade]

I’m in no way trying to minimise the difficulties Nicola may have been experiencing. Far from it. Merely trying to minimise the stigma of seeking comfort/solace/relief in alcohol.

BBM

Please don’t.

Seeking comfort in alcohol from mental and physical difficulties is listed in the descriptions of alcohol abuse risk.

Really great UK resource on the topic: Research | Alcohol Change UK

>>
The relationship between alcohol and mental health is complex. Alcohol has been described as a ‘favourite coping mechanism’ in the UK, and many of us drink to try and help manage stress, anxiety, depression or other mental health problems [2]. This is sometimes called ‘self-medicating’ with alcohol. Although alcohol can bring a short-term escape from mental distress, the effects don’t last, and in the longer-term overuse of alcohol can worsen the symptoms of many mental health problems, particularly anxiety and depression. >>

Dual diagnosis: supporting the whole person | Alcohol Change UK


>>
People who drink to cope are more likely to develop an alcohol use disorder.

This is probably because people are using alcohol to deal with underlying problems rather than seeking out more effective long-term solutions for managing their challenges. By drinking to cope, you’re avoiding dealing with the underlying problem(s), and your alcohol use can actually make them worse—for example, by interfering with relationships with family and friends. Individuals who experience trauma, or who are more prone to depression or anxiety, are more likely to report drinking to cope.

The 4 Main Reasons Why We Drink



Imo

 

[Allabouttrial]

Does anyone recall that when NB’s former partner was tracked down by media and asked to comment on her disappearance, he declined “out of respect for her parents”. Respecting her parents is obviously admirable but it did strike me as a slightly strange answer and caused me to wonder if NB had actually gone missing before - perhaps while in the relationship with him. Just my speculation. MOO

Oh of course. You could have a point there!

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Does anyone recall that when NB’s former partner was tracked down by media and asked to comment on her disappearance, he declined “out of respect for her parents”. Respecting her parents is obviously admirable but it did strike me as a slightly strange answer and caused me to wonder if NB had actually gone missing before - perhaps while in the relationship with him. Just my speculation. MOO

Perhaps he just had a good relationship with her parents hence his wording.

But (mere speculation only) random absences and alcohol problems do tend to go hand-in-hand. Just an observation, no judgment. I’ve done it myself.

 

[penguinface]

Interesting, thanks. So does that mean the press would've been unlikely (or even unable) to print a story on her alcohol/menopause issues anyway, if the police hadn't officially announced them?

I think MWT is implying that it was the Jan 10th event that would have been reported on. If the press couldn’t have included any more info than that the police and an ambulance were there, due to not being able to report on medical/psychological issues, it would have raised further unnecessary questions, suspicion, conspiracy theories, and hurt for the family.

edit: sorry, much the same was already said, didn’t realise how many pages of the thread had already come after that I hadn’t got to yet!

 

[sceawian]

I wonder as NB and PA have been in a relationship for 12 years then maybe NB passed the Next of Kin onto PA. Also he is the father of their two daughters.

Others from the UK, can you explain to me the difference between Next of Kin and registered Powers of Attorney in this setting? Like obviously PoAs don't have to be kin, but can you legally delegate your preferred NoK in a separate process to your health and finance PoAs? If a person had registered PoAs before they disappeared would the police contact them in this case, or only NoK?

 

[GeorgeFormby]

exactly and as I posted earlier the statement by LP said it was a call of concern for welfare at NBs home address. It did not say who's welfare though did it

Agreed, it could be anything. Again, just based on some personal insight, it could be literally anything. If a parent was struggling, maybe drunk, or took a few sleeping pills, kids can't wake mum or dad up, so call ambulance. One of the parents is struggling to hold it together, child gets scared, rings 999. Mum or dad is in a bad place, so partner rings police. Mum or dad is being physically attacked by partner, so partner or child rings police. Child says something to a teacher, which triggers a process. Mum or dad make a threat to partner, kids overhear, overreact and ring police. These things happen regularly and more often than not, do not warrant further interest, beyond a couple of visits and phone calls.

 

[EvaP]

I have watched the Sky News clip of Kay Burley doing NB's final walk and I am confused - Kay referred to there being two visits by authorities to the family home on both 10th and 17th January. Does anybody know if this is correct? I thought that there was only one. She said 'and a medical team went to the home on 17th January.'

Bulley investigation: Kay Burley retraces Nicola's last known dog walk

Kay Burley retraces Nicola Bulley's last known dog walk live from St. Michael's on Wyre, Lancashire, with all the latest from the investigation into the disappearance three weeks ago.

news.sky.com

Follow up visit a week later maybe

 

[rockthecasbah]

She may live a distance away and having auntie there all the time maintains some normality and bit of cheer for the children.

If no one is sleeping much because of this then it's better to have 2 adults to help.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Others from the UK, can you explain to me the difference between Next of Kin and registered Powers of Attorney in this setting? Like obviously PoAs don't have to be kin, but can you legally delegate your preferred NoK in a separate process to your health and finance PoAs? If a person had registered PoAs before they disappeared would the police contact them in this case, or only NoK?

I don't understand the relevance of this question with regard to Nicola's disappearance?

 

[Agatha3]

It will be interesting to see how this all looks once the dust has settled.

I’m still not “outraged” by the disclosures the police have made, and see why they did it up to a point, but wonder if specifics necessary given such private information and at this later stage.

I do think instead of saying “Nicola’s reputation has been ruined” then people in the media should be expressing nothing but sympathy for health problems. They’re kind of the ones denigrating her reputation with the reaction.

I too was not outraged by police comments and my son and I Thought it explained a great deal and we felt heartbreak for Nicola, not stigma. You can guess what outcome we thought this meant. Pretty much case closed apart from recovering her. Was this the reaction police expected?

 

[Enigmacode]

Do we actually know if NB herself was the subject of the welfare check?

Not that I have seen. Many of the details of that check are undisclosed, vague details.
Who called for the check to be done?
Who was involved and found at the property during the check?
What were the reasons for the WC?
Potential 'arrest', but who, what potential crime/charge/warrant?

 

[bringmeacupoft]

NB dad had a few words today.

‘Ernie Bulley's words came three weeks after his 45-year-old daughter disappeared while walking her dog in the village of St Michael's on Wyre in Lancashire.

"Every day is a struggle," he told Sky News.

"[We're] no further on from three weeks ago.

"[We] just need a breakthrough to give us some hope."’

'Every day is a struggle': Father of missing Nicola Bulley hopes for 'breakthrough'

Police investigating the disappearance of Nicola Bulley have been criticised after saying she had suffered "significant issues with alcohol" which were "brought on by her ongoing struggles with the menopause".

news.sky.com

 

[Penny68]

Others from the UK, can you explain to me the difference between Next of Kin and registered Powers of Attorney in this setting? Like obviously PoAs don't have to be kin, but can you legally delegate your preferred NoK in a separate process to your health and finance PoAs? If a person had registered PoAs before they disappeared would the police contact them in this case, or only NoK?

A Next of Kin is used to refer to a relative (or relatives) who you have the closest relationship with. As there are no clear legal rules, however, a next of kin doesn’t necessarily have to be a blood relative. The allocated person would be added to say medical records, so they would be the first port of call if the person that gave them the NOK status was taken into hospital for instance.

(When my father passed away I was his only living relative (daughter). He had not taken out Power of Attorney, but I was named as his Next of Kin, by him, at his doctors and also at the hospital. I was able due to that status sort out all his affairs, including his finances)


Power of Attorney can give a person peace of mind that someone that is trusted by you is in charge of your affairs.

If the trusted person is aged 18 or older and have the mental ability to make financial, property and medical decisions for you, you can arrange for someone else to make these decisions for you in the future. This legal authority is called "lasting power of attorney".

The person who is given power of attorney is known as the "attorney" and must be over 18 years old. You are known as the "donor".

 

[Marie Bell]

I've just joined, after reading most of the threads on an ongoing basis, and as a lurker I'd like to compliment a few members on their good sense. There's some in particular, but I won't name them, as that might be in breach of the rules, for all I know.

What I mostly wanted to add, though, was my thoughts about the January 10th incident, because I'm fairly familiar with these types of situations where police respond in the way they did. i.e. with health professionals, and the various situations that come under the 'concern for welfare' heading. Basically a 'concern for welfare' can stretch from a person not being seen/failing to respond to knocks and calls, to someone sitting on the roof and threatening to set themselves on fire. But if the response comprises health professionals embedded with the police response team, this is generally because someone has called the police for assistance because there is some sort of a crisis going on, and where one of the involved people is 'not themselves/irrational' for any number of reasons.

I won't speculate as to why they responded in this case; and the exact circumstances don't matter. What does seem to matter is that someone from the press had got wind of the incident, and (I'm surmising here, based upon the few things I've heard about how the press operates) asked the police if they wished to comment regarding a story they intended to publish within a short time-frame. I'd surmise that the story was going to merely say WTTE 'police called to house on January 10th because NB was doing xxxxyyyzzz whilst drunk'.

I get the impression that the whole 'brought on by the menopause suffering' was intended (by the family, I'd say) to try to remove any suggestion that NB was a full-blown-never-sober-out-of-control-drunk.

I'm also of the opinion that in this case her state of mind, and any problems she'd had, including any problem drinking that had occurred, soon turned out to be not relevant to her disappearance. Though obviously it would have taken a couple of days and a lot of searching, etc, to get a clearer idea on that. It's my opinion that the most probable event - as said in the very first LP press conference, is that she plonked the phone on the bench (my words) to start getting the harness back on the dog, and that one way or another she ended up stumbling/tripping over and falling in the river. If so, she wouldn't have landed on the stones at the shallower edge in a neat standing-up landing pose (like PF kept talking about). She'd have ended up more on her backside/side, potentially even with a twisted ankle. With a good deal of her anatomy in water that was nearly 0c, and maybe having some splashed in her face and mouth, she wouldn't, sadly, have been capable of doing anything much to help herself.

All of the above is my opinion only, and sorry it's such a long ramble. With the exception of the Jan 10th matter, which we learned only yesterday, I've kind of held onto these thoughts for nearly three weeks in silence!