Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #17

[cottonweaver]

Would the press not have spoken to the walkers who found the body?

There is a lot more information out there that the police haven't confirmed, it doesn't mean it isn't correct

JMO

well it was cordoned off well before and as there's no extra comment/detail from the walkers, I didn't get the impression that any reporter had spoken to the man & woman ( middle aged or older)

I will check to see if any other reporter described ' found in reeds' or any other press seems to have got a comment from the dog walkers.
( I only commented, cause the phrasing struck me yesterday - UK - UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #17

 

[Helechawagirl]

I thought that too, but do clothes decompose in 3 weeks? I have no idea

I wouldn’t think clothes would disintegrate that fast—maybe washed off by agitating waters? JMO

 

[flysleuthD]

I’m not an expert so I’ll take what PF has said here at face value. However, I think he implied previously that there was a third party involved rather than the more likely scenario that NB was lodged at the side of the river MOO, which was misleading and discredited police activity.

If only the experts had visited websleuths around thread 5/6, many of us here discussed the extensive riverbanks were where they needed to look rather than just the riverbed. It was blindingly obvious looking at the twists and turns of that river and the sheer density of those riverbanks that a body could be entangled for some time until the tide shifted or in Fridays case a huge downpour of rain which hit Lancashire. Whoever they found (I'm not saying her name as its not been formally announced) May they rest in peace x

 

[suzyjackson]

well it was cordoned off well before and as there's no extra comment/detail from the walkers, I didn't get the impression that any reporter had spoken to the man & woman ( middle aged or older)

I will check to see if any other reporter described ' found in reeds' or any other press seems to have got a comment from the dog walkers.
( I only commented, cause the phrasing struck me yesterday - UK - UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #17

Im not sure what you mean by cordoned off but if the press asked the walkers who found the body what they saw wouldn't they describe the scene?

We know from the photo that at least one person was right by the waters edge, an off the record chat with reporters seems like something that would happen

If it were me I might say what I'd seen but no way would I allow it to be attributed to me or be named in the press in this case after all the craziness

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Not in the limited range of any of the photos, no. Why?

I guess that the area being cordoned off - the roads - meant that anybody who took a photo had a limited view from a field which they had crossed to get a view ' across the flats'
Didn't get shots looking down or over the wall where the two dog walkers were pictured nor shots angled into the riverbeds

There were references to reporters being asked to move on/ leave - courteously - as soon as the cordons went up on all the nearby roads

 

[CuriousObserver1]

Good old reverse ferret from PF, JMO this says (to misquote) "I was tasked with looking in the river, she wasn't found in the river, but at the edge of the river, which isn't the river but which most people may think is the river as it is in the river but isn't"

I don’t understand all the negativity for PF, he was searching the river bed, and the police were responsible for the banks/reeds and ‘wade’ searches - I think it is very ‘British’ to want to bring down a peg or two anyone who might come across very confident in their abilities as we assume pure arrogance, but he was trying to help, and has the best underwater (not reeds/trees/bankside) sonar equipment in the UK. At the time he did not think he needed to spell out what ‘in the river/riverbed’ means, but probably wishes he did - often experts in a field over estimate what non-experts know as things can seem obvious / basic to them. Plus he did say beyond the weir there can’t be any guarantee a body is not there due to the river’s tidal nature, but the riverbed from the bench to the weir was definitely clear.

If anything, if it was there all along, then the police banks/wade searchers would have been the ones to find it there - hopefully the media/sleuths negativity does not put PF (and others) off offering to help another family for free given if the body had been missed on the riverbed, he would have found her - which was what he said all along he was what he was setting out to check, never the reeds/riverbanks.

 

[cottonweaver]

If only the experts had visited websleuths around thread 5/6, many of us here discussed the extensive riverbanks were where they needed to look rather than just the riverbed. It was blindingly obvious looking at the twists and turns of that river and the sheer density of those riverbanks that a body could be entangled for some time until the tide shifted or in Fridays case a huge downpour of rain which hit Lancashire. Whoever they found (I'm not saying her name as its not been formally announced) May they rest in peace x

Agree - It's a tidal river. Things move up and move down - I am trying not to get graphic here.
but re experts visiting WS......
They already did riverbanks.
LP already told us that every day two officers did 6 miles each - just of riverbank
+ Experts already said it's tidal & thus complex. The sensible expert stuff was just crowded out in the clamour & frenzy in press, although we did quote what they said here on WS

 

[Woodburnbay]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627572752218525701

Would this also be regarded off topic as my deleted post yesterday partly covered what he's referring to?

Hypocritical as all of MSM is as guilty. I don't agree with Tick Tockers filming or anyone visiting the area as a tourist but then again are MSM doing this and reading copy everywhere.

Why does MSM get such a priority to do this-It certainly doesn't get excused by the whole democracy argument.

 

[PS8800]

I think it’s more likely that she jumped in - it would explain why there were no slip marks, none of her stuff found while she thrashed about trying to save herself, no marks on the bank where she tried to grip, no cry for help.
It would also explain why she went straight to the bottom - because she intentionally inhaled water.

I thought it was impossible to intentionally drown yourself

 

[Woodburnbay]

Im not sure what you mean by cordoned off but if the press asked the walkers who found the body what they saw wouldn't they describe the scene?

We know from the photo that at least one person was right by the waters edge, an off the record chat with reporters seems like something that would happen

If it were me I might say what I'd seen but no way would I allow it to be attributed to me or be named in the press in this case after all the craziness

JMO

If I was police I would have advised those that found the body to say "No Comment" as Police would be responsible for making an announcement as soon as they had more information.

 

[ShireChe]

Peter Faulding has spoken.

An update from Peter Faulding:
The SGI underwater search team was tasked with searching the river upsteam of weir in the non tidal part of the river, past the bench where Nicola’s phone was found and a mile upstream past this point. For three days, using high frequency side scan sonar, we thoroughly search the riverbed and can categorically confirm that Nicola was not laying on the riverbed on the days that we searched. We did search the stretch of river where Nicola was found for four hours on our first day and then upstream past the weir on the subsequent two days. The police underwater search teams and land search teams were searching for three full weeks and were also unable to find Nicola. Unfortunately it was a member of the public that made the grim discovery.

Sadly, the discovery was not found in the river but in the reeds at the side of the river which was not part of our remit as the side scan sonar does not penetrate reeds above or below the water. A riverbank and wade search would be the only way to search this area and we were not involved or tasked with that search. The difference between these two search areas has caused a lot of confusion and unfair criticism towards myself and my team at Specialist Group International (SGI).

My previous comments saying that if Nicola was in the river, I would find her, still stand. My team and I at SGI did all we could to assist this family with only our best intentions. I am sure I can say this of everyone who has been involved in this difficult search.

SGI is the recognised underwater search team for Essex, Surrey, Sussex, Kent, Hampshire and Thames Valley police who we have worked closely alongside for many years. Unfortunately there are few police underwater search teams left. Each year we locate and recover many unfortunate victims and bring them back to their families. Sadly, for circumstances out of our control, and as hard as we try, sometimes we are unable to locate the missing person. Nicola Bulley

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid029USRBSpteTopS7ggh7F283a6ync7aL3k8EkrYCfGYzqAypVvb3vTgSBQ7wyfbMqzl&id=100064903441883

I don't doubt that his efforts to help were genuine, but I do wish his words had been a bit more circumspect at the time. Especially for someone who admitted he was not privy to all details of the case.

Is there not some slight subtext here though. He is still saying she wasn't in the water when he searched, which leaves three possibilities.

1. He overestimated his abilities.
2. NB was in the reeds the whole time 3. The body was placed there afterwards.
I suppose there is little point speculating until we hear from the forensic pathologists

 

[cottonweaver]

I don’t understand all the negativity for PF, he was searching the river bed, and the police were responsible for the banks/reeds and ‘wade’ searches - I think it is very ‘British’ to want to bring down a peg or two anyone who might come across very confident in their abilities as we assume pure arrogance, but he was trying to help, and has the best underwater (not reeds/trees/bankside) sonar equipment in the UK. At the time he did not think he needed to spell out what ‘in the river/riverbed’ means, but probably wishes he did - often experts in a field over estimate what non-experts know as things can seem obvious / basic to them. Plus he did say beyond the weir there can’t be any guarantee a body is not there due to the river’s tidal nature, but the riverbed from the bench to the weir was definitely clear.

If anything, if it was there all along, then the police banks/wade searchers would have been the ones to find it there - hopefully the media/sleuths negativity does not put PF (and others) off offering to help another family for free given if the body had been missed on the riverbed, he would have found her - which was what he said all along he was what he was setting out to check, never the reeds/riverbanks.

Because his very first comments on the case were very negative, he said that the police's investigation was ' a mess' and that they'd been 'foolish' and then he claimed that they had ruled out any 3rd party involvement ' without checking' when that was false. No idea why he would want to ' take them down a peg or two' or whether it's cause he's British

I am loathe to link all his interviews where he says that, (from early Feb before he was in St Michaels , but if you want them, I can) because it always feels as if it's all about him. Even now

 

[Woodburnbay]

I don’t understand all the negativity for PF, he was searching the river bed, and the police were responsible for the banks/reeds and ‘wade’ searches - I think it is very ‘British’ to want to bring down a peg or two anyone who might come across very confident in their abilities as we assume pure arrogance, but he was trying to help, and has the best underwater (not reeds/trees/bankside) sonar equipment in the UK. At the time he did not think he needed to spell out what ‘in the river/riverbed’ means, but probably wishes he did - often experts in a field over estimate what non-experts know as things can seem obvious / basic to them. Plus he did say beyond the weir there can’t be any guarantee a body is not there due to the river’s tidal nature, but the riverbed from the bench to the weir was definitely clear.

If anything, if it was there all along, then the police banks/wade searchers would have been the ones to find it there - hopefully the media/sleuths negativity does not put PF (and others) off offering to help another family for free given if the body had been missed on the riverbed, he would have found her - which was what he said all along he was what he was setting out to check, never the reeds/riverbanks.

The negativity around PF is the way he states "If I don't find it in the river its not there" He then says that he will find it in Burial sites in land.

He does neither and then when the body turns up he backtracks to say that he only searched the river-The river where the body was found.

Of course, we don't know if the body was placed there afterwards but forensic examination and pathology will determine this.

 

[BDL1960]

Peter Faulding has spoken.

An update from Peter Faulding:
The SGI underwater search team was tasked with searching the river upsteam of weir in the non tidal part of the river, past the bench where Nicola’s phone was found and a mile upstream past this point. For three days, using high frequency side scan sonar, we thoroughly search the riverbed and can categorically confirm that Nicola was not laying on the riverbed on the days that we searched. We did search the stretch of river where Nicola was found for four hours on our first day and then upstream past the weir on the subsequent two days. The police underwater search teams and land search teams were searching for three full weeks and were also unable to find Nicola. Unfortunately it was a member of the public that made the grim discovery.

Sadly, the discovery was not found in the river but in the reeds at the side of the river which was not part of our remit as the side scan sonar does not penetrate reeds above or below the water. A riverbank and wade search would be the only way to search this area and we were not involved or tasked with that search. The difference between these two search areas has caused a lot of confusion and unfair criticism towards myself and my team at Specialist Group International (SGI).

My previous comments saying that if Nicola was in the river, I would find her, still stand. My team and I at SGI did all we could to assist this family with only our best intentions. I am sure I can say this of everyone who has been involved in this difficult search.

SGI is the recognised underwater search team for Essex, Surrey, Sussex, Kent, Hampshire and Thames Valley police who we have worked closely alongside for many years. Unfortunately there are few police underwater search teams left. Each year we locate and recover many unfortunate victims and bring them back to their families. Sadly, for circumstances out of our control, and as hard as we try, sometimes we are unable to locate the missing person. Nicola Bulley

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid029USRBSpteTopS7ggh7F283a6ync7aL3k8EkrYCfGYzqAypVvb3vTgSBQ7wyfbMqzl&id=100064903441883

He set himself up for any criticism with his over-confidence and arrogance. I imagine LE used him at the specific request of the family with gritted teeth. I wouldn't have shared any confidential information with him either.

 

[CuriousObserver1]

I’m not an expert so I’ll take what PF has said here at face value. However, I think he implied previously that there was a third party involved rather than the more likely scenario that NB was lodged at the side of the river MOO, which was misleading and discredited police activity.

IMO given he was working on the police’s hypothesis that she went into the water by the bench and that it was an accident (as he had no idea of her potential state of mind), then although the body could have gone over the weir ( Not sure if this is it - Weir on the River Wyre © Peter Bond) - if it was not in the area from / near the bench, given the change in depths - and she had fell in by the bench, then he was right that a 3rd party could have been involved.

The family seemed concerned that the police had assumed suicide and were not checking in case of any other scenario, so if anything I think he was trying to help the family push the police not to rule out other options just in case, which at the time the media/many sleuths were pushing for too. As soon as all knew her vulnerabilities, many too same view as the police - it looks like they were right, but all other possibilities needed checking just in case.

Like I mentioned earlier, I would hate the excessive criticism put PF/others offering their services to other families for free in the future, although I am sure their will be explicitly clear about their remit and what words they use - which is a good ‘learn’.

 

[CuriousObserver1]

Wifi issues, duplicate post

 

[Seattle1]

The Mail said that
( Link to title they used here UK - UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #17

LP haven't said that though so am not sure how the Mail's reporter would be able to describe the final 'resting' place so definitively.

mail also said ' found in the reeds' as did Faulding ( and latter was not there either, he was back in Southern England)

Mail seemed to be implying that she'd been ' in the reeds' or in that stretch for the whole 3 weeks - which sounds unlikely to me. What do you think?

From a YT walking the trail from the bench to the recovery location, IMO, both downed/submerged tree branches and reeds are applicable. Whereas reeds, aquatic plants that live on the edge, are a constant, the partially submerged branch was likely removed during recovery of the body. MOO

 

[ameliak]

Not the outcome I had hoped for, but thankful that (if it is confirmed) NB has been found. Condolences to all who knew & loved her & her precious little girls.

 

[choc drop]

This has some points I'm sure alot would be interested to read:

General Information on Drowned Bodies

This is interesting but living near a local river (albeit a bit wider than the Wyre) when people go in and drown, they are usually found 2-5 miles down river, and there are multiple locks and weirs enroute. Given we have Roger Jones (albeit 45 years ago) who went into the Wyre further upstream than Nicola possibly did and was found 7 miles downstream it indicates this river does move things along and is probably deeper and faster than it looks.

 

[Hel44]

Does anyone know which way P and Ron were walking when they made their way to the bench that morning? (Eg where they came from?

If NB had decided to walk further along the river towards the weir and leave her belongings at the bench, would either of them have possibly crossed paths with her? (And if they didn’t, would that discount that theory?).