UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

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Next weeks?

Baby O - dead (liver injury).

"Mr Johnson said the most likely cause was an impact-type trauma, adding: "In brutal terms, an assault."

Baby P - dead

"Independent experts who were tasked with reviewing child P’s case said the most likely cause was air injected into his stomach which compromised his breathing."

Baby Q -

Rapid recovery in another hospital.

Link in my post above
We still have a little way to go on baby N.

Three experts, the doctor who was messaging LL and tried to intubate baby N early that morning, the doctor who was looking after baby N that day, and LL's police interviews. Perhaps even the Alder Hey specialists who went to help too.
 
Not sure how others are feeling about the case of Baby N, but at this point I feel entirely unconvinced that LL (or anyone) did anything untoward. The first allegation seems to centre on the baby “screaming”, but there’s really nothing to suggest what the alleged trauma was or that it was LL who did it. The baby had other desaturations which were deemed normal.

Two weeks pass, and then we’re onto the next allegation. Which seems to be that LL thrust something into the baby’s throat to cause a bleed, in a split second of appearing in the room to start her day shift? But there were clearly issues with intubating the baby, they’d been trying since 4am, plus he had a blood clotting disorder. So the idea that LL stealthily caused this throat trauma seems really far fetched to me.

The offer of baptism, I don’t find it that compelling personally. Previously there was a baby deliberately kept alive to wait for a priest. Kind of feels like if there’s a chance something might happen to a baby, give the parents the choice asap. Better to have the choice than be left with regrets.

This haemophilia case was another one I anticipated would be strong (the other being baby k), but does not appear to be ‘living up to’ their respective opening speeches. JMO.
 
I hear yah really I do. Domestic abuse etc is always difficult to prove as it nearly always relies on witness testimony. would place a bet it’s other witnesses accounts of things being said that factor in those.

I do hear yah about times and record keeping as well but timings not so relevant so long as you have reliable witness testimony. example doesn’t make a difference if the 7.15 collapse happened at 8.15 but so long as it fits with the surrounding events it’s fine.

regarding the missing notes for baby n. That’s a pretty poor attempt at hiding information when you text what you were supposed to write down to a fellow member of staff.

do you think he is the reason she didn’t? Too absorbed with talking to him maybe? Also if poor note keeping is a factor it cannot be proven that she didn’t only that no one remembers it happened or indeed had failed to write the notes themselves.

was this the first recorded blood btw?
this factor 8? I read it’s some form of clotting agent. I’m wondering if she would be able to give this without supervision or permission from doc?
It may well be she wasn’t necessarily trying to hide information as you mention- we don’t really know her intention imo, BUT the thing I find strange is when questioned by the police she couldn’t explain why this information wasn’t relayed to others involved in baby Ns care.

It may well have been distraction (by the male doctor), embarrassment by admitting this perhaps. I hope we might get to hear more from him in due course, he seems a significant part to all this imo.

Or, something else I noticed was previous messages with colleagues where she’s throwing around medical terminology/diagnosis etc- is this something similar, it’s quite difficult to know. A little bit like one of the cases where it was said in evidence; she was messaging (again) regarding Down’s syndrome and ivf babies. Given some of her conversations via messages heard so far, she seems quite capable of articulating her needs (eg saying people should respect that etc) and quite capable of seemingly diagnosing -outside of her role no-less imo: why can she therefore not explain why she didn’t raise baby Ns needs but was messaging the doctor- I just don’t understand that.

JMO
 
Not sure how others are feeling about the case of Baby N, but at this point I feel entirely unconvinced that LL (or anyone) did anything untoward. The first allegation seems to centre on the baby “screaming”, but there’s really nothing to suggest what the alleged trauma was or that it was LL who did it. The baby had other desaturations which were deemed normal.

Two weeks pass, and then we’re onto the next allegation. Which seems to be that LL thrust something into the baby’s throat to cause a bleed, in a split second of appearing in the room to start her day shift? But there were clearly issues with intubating the baby, they’d been trying since 4am, plus he had a blood clotting disorder. So the idea that LL stealthily caused this throat trauma seems really far fetched to me.

The offer of baptism, I don’t find it that compelling personally. Previously there was a baby deliberately kept alive to wait for a priest. Kind of feels like if there’s a chance something might happen to a baby, give the parents the choice asap. Better to have the choice than be left with regrets.

This haemophilia case was another one I anticipated would be strong (the other being baby k), but does not appear to be ‘living up to’ their respective opening speeches. JMO.
I really think it's too early to say, before the rest of the testimony is completed. I feel as if I know nothing very much about the 15th yet. From the minute I saw that statement from the parents about doctors trying to intubate from 4am I've had a feeling the time could be a reporting error, or that there is some other problem with that time. It could even be that they were told that by LL when they turned up and saw him with blood around his mouth, but that's a guess without anything to support it at this stage. It's also not mentioned anywhere in the night-shift evidence. JMO
 
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Not sure how others are feeling about the case of Baby N, but at this point I feel entirely unconvinced that LL (or anyone) did anything untoward. The first allegation seems to centre on the baby “screaming”, but there’s really nothing to suggest what the alleged trauma was or that it was LL who did it. The baby had other desaturations which were deemed normal.

Two weeks pass, and then we’re onto the next allegation. Which seems to be that LL thrust something into the baby’s throat to cause a bleed, in a split second of appearing in the room to start her day shift? But there were clearly issues with intubating the baby, they’d been trying since 4am, plus he had a blood clotting disorder. So the idea that LL stealthily caused this throat trauma seems really far fetched to me.

The offer of baptism, I don’t find it that compelling personally. Previously there was a baby deliberately kept alive to wait for a priest. Kind of feels like if there’s a chance something might happen to a baby, give the parents the choice asap. Better to have the choice than be left with regrets.

This haemophilia case was another one I anticipated would be strong (the other being baby k), but does not appear to be ‘living up to’ their respective opening speeches. JMO.
That’s quite a flimsy thing to say maybe? “screaming”. It’s a bit like a few of the cases. Haphazard in timing.

Re. Factor 8. No medication can be given without a prescription, and in addition there would have to be a protocol either from pharmacy or a specialist unit as it's not something normally given on neonatal units.
so we know this factor 8 was delivered via taxi from alder hey, would that then entail the staff sent with it, staying and caring for that specific ailment and treatment ? or maybe training a house nurse to administer with a schedule? Can’t see that ll told her choc man th she did give the f8 without instruction
 
And her left her some chocolate? And offered her the use of his car? Sounds like he was pretty interested in her.

Leaving chocolates is very common in medical circles. There's a never ending supply floating around at our medical centre. Not sure if that applies in this case, but it might not be an indicator of a desire for an amorous relationship.
 
Leaving chocolates is very common in medical circles. There's a never ending supply floating around at our medical centre. Not sure if that applies in this case, but it might not be an indicator of a desire for an amorous relationship.
It wasn't just the chocolates---it was the way he worded his messages to her.

Doc: 'Oh Lucy, poor little thing and you.

Doc: 'Are you OK? Have a cry, you'll feel better for it I'm sure. You're welcome to take my car home if you're too tired to walk. I sort out picking it up in the morning.

Doc: 'No not really. Your day sounds as though as it's been horrible. Poor you. Are you going to be OK?

Doc: 'I'm sure he's had the best care possible today and that you will have done everything you can for him.

Doc: 'Are you doing anything nice before you go on holiday? You're not having to do a long run of shifts to get the time off for that are you?'

Doc: 'Look on the top shelf. Right hand side. For the walk home. Your [sic] still welcome to the car.'


Calling her 'you poor little thing' in their FB messages.
Offering her his car to use, leaving him no way home.
Sounds pretty chummy for a professional colleague relationship. JMO
 
It wasn't just the chocolates---it was the way he worded his messages to her.

Doc: 'Oh Lucy, poor little thing and you.

Doc: 'Are you OK? Have a cry, you'll feel better for it I'm sure. You're welcome to take my car home if you're too tired to walk. I sort out picking it up in the morning.

Doc: 'No not really. Your day sounds as though as it's been horrible. Poor you. Are you going to be OK?

Doc: 'I'm sure he's had the best care possible today and that you will have done everything you can for him.

Doc: 'Are you doing anything nice before you go on holiday? You're not having to do a long run of shifts to get the time off for that are you?'

Doc: 'Look on the top shelf. Right hand side. For the walk home. Your [sic] still welcome to the car.'


Calling her 'you poor little thing' in their FB messages.
Offering her his car to use, leaving him no way home.
Sounds pretty chummy for a professional colleague relationship. JMO
I thought "poor little thing" was about Baby N?
But you are right, this good Doctor sounds really caring :)
No wonder she was bawling her eyes out in court after nearly a decade.

JMO
 
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I have a question re LL and her alleged "tremors" due to thyroid condition.
Does it not somehow disqualify a person from nursing?

I mean, it can prove fatal when giving injections or other procedures esp. in case of tiny patients where accuracy is vital.

JMO
 
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It doesn't answer your question Dotta but I think they might have to call her own doctor to give evidence about this. Not that it is the defence case that any of these alleged acts were accidental, because they are denied completely. JMO
 
It doesn't answer your question Dotta but I think they might have to call her own doctor to give evidence about this. Not that it is the defence case that any of these alleged acts were accidental, because they are denied completely. JMO
But they might, as a last resort.
Why to even mention this condition?

JMO
 
It wasn't just the chocolates---it was the way he worded his messages to her.

Doc: 'Oh Lucy, poor little thing and you.

Doc: 'Are you OK? Have a cry, you'll feel better for it I'm sure. You're welcome to take my car home if you're too tired to walk. I sort out picking it up in the morning.

Doc: 'No not really. Your day sounds as though as it's been horrible. Poor you. Are you going to be OK?

Doc: 'I'm sure he's had the best care possible today and that you will have done everything you can for him.

Doc: 'Are you doing anything nice before you go on holiday? You're not having to do a long run of shifts to get the time off for that are you?'

Doc: 'Look on the top shelf. Right hand side. For the walk home. Your [sic] still welcome to the car.'


Calling her 'you poor little thing' in their FB messages.
Offering her his car to use, leaving him no way home.
Sounds pretty chummy for a professional colleague relationship. JMO


He must know where she live in order to make the offer that he can arrange to pick it up the next morning.

Also: re. The offer of the car. He doesn't ask if she can drive, nor mention insurance, doesn't say what kind of car he has, where it is parked, how easy it is to drive.

How does he know she doesn't have her own car? How does he know it would help her to have a car?

IMO the offer of the car could imply a degree of existing closeness.
 
She had everything:

She was young and pretty.

She had prestigious career in medical field.

She had a beautiful new house.

A nice doctor was obviously interested in her.

And suddenly it all vanished.
I would cry long and hard.
:(

JMO
 
So if guilty ...did she cause a collapse within minutes of arrival for her shift in order to see the Dr who would still be on nights .
Or (if guilty) not just to see him, but to impress him with how well "serious Lucy" handled the situation? And, as they were on opposite shifts, to do so she, she would need to arrive early for her day shift (or stay late). It's not something you can really demonstrate outside of work

If guilty, IMO
 
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