UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[sleuth777]

Sky News link:

Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies

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[Sillybilly]

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[Sillybilly]

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[Knitty]

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[Sillybilly]

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[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.

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[Sweeper2000]

there Is allot of things I’m still curious about. The most recent insulin case is one. Again seems more bags than one was contaminated but it’s the difference in dextrose that interests me. Again is the assumption that all the bags had insulin in Them?

im also not seeing how air in the ng tube could be lethal. The problems that causes I would have thought were treatable. Splinted diaphragm fixed by positive pressure ventilation and it not being particularly lethal if treated. I’m even interested to know how the resus efforts can differ. Dr evans says it was a very robust thirty min resus effort, how on earth does that thirty mins differ from other cases where there was a death?

 

[marynnu]

there Is allot of things I’m still curious about. The most recent insulin case is one. Again seems more bags than one was contaminated but it’s the difference in dextrose that interests me. Again is the assumption that all the bags had insulin in Them?

im also not seeing how air in the ng tube could be lethal. The problems that causes I would have thought were treatable. Splinted diaphragm fixed by positive pressure ventilation and it not being particularly lethal if treated. I’m even interested to know how the resus efforts can differ. Dr evans says it was a very robust thirty min resus effort, how on earth does that thirty mins differ from other cases where there was a death?

Why does the difference in dextrose interest you?
I'm also interested in your knowledge about a splinted diaphragm.

 

[JosieJo]

there Is allot of things I’m still curious about. The most recent insulin case is one. Again seems more bags than one was contaminated but it’s the difference in dextrose that interests me. Again is the assumption that all the bags had insulin in Them?

im also not seeing how air in the ng tube could be lethal. The problems that causes I would have thought were treatable. Splinted diaphragm fixed by positive pressure ventilation and it not being particularly lethal if treated. I’m even interested to know how the resus efforts can differ. Dr evans says it was a very robust thirty min resus effort, how on earth does that thirty mins differ from other cases where there was a death?

How many of the splinted diaphragm cases died?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Why does the difference in dextrose interest you?

It’s a similar question to the first case. Were all of them contaminated? I’m just thinking that if they were poisoned deliberately would that have entailed the poisoner anticipating that different levels of dextrose would be administered at any given point and thus poisoned all of them. And if these bags were in a box, were any others poisoned or used at all. Or was it like the tpn and maintenance bags, presumably disposed of before they were used. preventing anyone knowing if they were poisoned or not.

 

[Sweeper2000]

How many of the splinted diaphragm cases died?

Think it’s just one or two but not sure.

 

[marynnu]

It’s a similar question to the first case. Were all of them contaminated? I’m just thinking that if they were poisoned deliberately would that have entailed the poisoner anticipating that different levels of dextrose would be administered at any given point and thus poisoned all of them. And if these bags were in a box, were any others poisoned or used at all. Or was it like the tpn and maintenance bags, presumably disposed of before they were used. preventing anyone knowing if they were poisoned or not.

They were not TPN. They were bags of 10% glucose, bags 2 & 3 having 50% glucose added to increase the percentage.

 

[Sweeper2000]

They were not TPN. They were bags of 10% glucose, bags 2 & 3 having 50% glucose added to increase the percentage.

Do you think they would be stored in the fridge same as tpn or did they have a longer shelf life? I’m just curious to know if other bags had insulin in them or if they were disposed of before any problems could arise

 

[JosieJo]

Think it’s just one or two but not sure.

Surely though if you feel undecided about how fatal a splinted diaphragm may be after resus you would need to know how many died in this case?

 

[marynnu]

Do you think they would be stored in the fridge same as tpn or did they have a longer shelf life? I’m just curious to know if other bags had insulin in them or if they were disposed of before any problems could arise

They're just stored at room temperature.

 

[Tortoise]

However it happened, one person managed to ensure that contaminated bags reached one baby, and it was someone who knew the systems in place on that unit, because otherwise more babies would have been affected.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

She hasn't detected what seems obvious to an observer, and thinks he's being odd, and talks about her own thoughts about him only. The other nurse isn't referring to his text, she's referring to what she already noticed. I think it's a good example of LL not perceiving others, just like when he bought her chocolate and she said it was a shame she doesn't usually eat chocolate, and the very similar accounts of her not being able to place herself in the shoes of the parents and shocking them with her inconsideration.

JMO

Smoke and mirrors!!

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Latest episode, baby N

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 22: Baby N, “Lucy Letby said to my parter, ‘I hope he’s alright,’ and gave her a hug.”

www.mailplus.co.uk

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 22: Baby N, “Lucy Letby said to my parter, ‘I hope he’s alright,’ and gave her a hug.”​

In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby N, a premature baby boy admitted to the Countess of Chester Hospital with the blood-clotting condition haemophilia.

 

[Sweeper2000]

That’s my line of thinking really. If we knew all bags had been contaminated it to me suggests they were just sitting around waiting to be used at any point. If only the bags that have it in it reach the babies that suggests something.

so we can infer that only bags containing insulin reaches any babies and none else. That suggests to me that insulin is put in bags in A specific way rather than say all bags in one box being injected and then presumably the problem being traced. I suppose this is true of both insulin cases except the tpn bags are much more likely to reach only specific babies if injected with insulin. I think someone mentioned the tpn is replenished every week. tpn is likely to be stored in a specific way as well. The dextrose stored at room temperature can just sit around in a box and is generic.

I think the way the evidence presents in the first case is with the question of two tpn bags or one

the second case i think involves more ambiguity. There were at least three bags alleged to have been contaminated all reaching one baby. These are generic dextrose. Is it possible that the box comes in multiples of three? So whatever the number there is three to a row or layer. That way if you were to poison three bags you could just poison the top layer of three and have a reasonable bet they all reach one?

You would also have the potential to remove these bags if you had access to the stock and knew the ones with insulin in.

by the sounds of it the dextrose bags are just stocked until used and presumably a standard stock number in the box or storage unit. Say about ten maybe twenty To a box?

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

there Is allot of things I’m still curious about. The most recent insulin case is one. Again seems more bags than one was contaminated but it’s the difference in dextrose that interests me. Again is the assumption that all the bags had insulin in Them?

im also not seeing how air in the ng tube could be lethal. The problems that causes I would have thought were treatable. Splinted diaphragm fixed by positive pressure ventilation and it not being particularly lethal if treated. I’m even interested to know how the resus efforts can differ. Dr evans says it was a very robust thirty min resus effort, how on earth does that thirty mins differ from other cases where there was a death?

In my opinon:

Anything that causes increased intra-abdominal pressure could cause a collapse if the pressure is high enough. This is because the abdominal contents will displace the space needed for the lungs to expand. This idea is not in question; it is basic physiology. The lungs need room to expand while you breathe. If the increased intrabdominal pressure is not resolved then even positive pressure ventilation may not be able to overcome the resistance and permit a resuscitation. Typically babies have increased intra-abdominal pressure due to illness or after surgery. They are already critically ill and sometimes on a ventilator to begin with. Usually there is little that can be done about the intra-abdominal pressure in those cases - sometimes they have to surgically open the belly or open it back up and sometimes that helps and sometimes it does not.

The reason why Dr. Evans has hypothesized that air in the NG tube contributed to, for instance, Baby I's first 3 collapses, is because there was evidence of excessive air in the stomach, *and* the baby was able to be resuscitated. On the other hand, babies who are suffering from the illness or surgical complications I described earlier... they aren't suddenly "fine" once the resuscitation is over. They're still very ill. Evans suggests that Baby I eventually died of an air embolism during her fourth collapse, when they were unable to resuscitate her.

As for your second bolded question, can you explain more what you are wondering here?

Lucy Letby trial: Baby girl 'killed by injection of air into her stomach'

Prosecutors alleged Lucy Letby tried three times to kill the baby girl before she succeeded on her fourth attempt.

news.yahoo.com