UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[sleuth777]

Sky News link:

Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies

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[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.

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Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.

As we don't have the staff to sit in this thread 24/7 to read posts in real time, please use the Report feature to alert Moderators to any post that you feel is sub judice and it will be reviewed and removed if necessary.

Also, this thread is to discuss the trial, not statistics or other cases.

Thank you.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I dont get whats Changed,the dates on The handover s have been reported and I think they all cover 2015/2016.around a year

 

[WaxLyrical]

I dont get whats Changed,the dates on The handover s have been reported and I think they all cover 2015/2016.around a year

I think this is only article that suggests they were all from that time period, it wasn’t reported anywhere else (happy to be corrected). And even then the wording is ambiguous:

A raft of medical documents, including handover sheets relating to more than 250 shifts she worked between June 2015 and June 2016 were also discovered during searches of her home and that of her parents, in Hereford.

Lucy Letby weeps in the dock as jury shown pictures of her room

 

[crystalline]

IMO after some thinking on this I’ve come to the conclusion....someone as highly educated as LL, who has herself admitted she was very career driven, who has been in the newspapers, someone who put herself forward for more training, obviously someone who wanted others to look up to her as someone of great character who was achieving a lot at such a young age, wouldn't make such a silly error of taking confidential handover sheets home, time and time again. I mean she must have retrieved them from her pocket prior to washing her uniform?

I do believe they were taken for some other alternative motive......the thousands of nurses out there, even some on this forum...obviously can make a mistake accidently take one home however I would imagine on discovery they would think 'oh ' and then destroy the handover sheet immediately, and certainly not allow them to build up. Maybe she doesn't like throwing things away, but these notes have emotional connections to other people she has encountered through her working day, and she was well aware she shouldn't be keeping them. And made a choice not to destroy each one as it was retrieved from where ever.

All just IMO of course but that's my penny thoughts for the evening

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think this is only article that suggests they were all from that time period, it wasn’t reported anywhere else (happy to be corrected). And even then the wording is ambiguous:

A raft of medical documents, including handover sheets relating to more than 250 shifts she worked between June 2015 and June 2016 were also discovered during searches of her home and that of her parents, in Hereford.

Lucy Letby weeps in the dock as jury shown pictures of her room

What’s ambiguous about that? “Relating to more than 250 shifts she worked between June 2015 and June 2016” to Me that reads all the handover sheets found were within june 2015 to june 2016.

 

[esther43]

Agree, she was ambitious and organised. Something very strange about hanging on to those handover notes and people forget how weird keeping them under her bed is. Especially when she had another room dedicated to 'household maintenance'
She ferried these notes back and fourth, she stored some and took others two and fro.
She may have wanted to access them whilst in the work place as well as at home. imo

 

[Dotta]

Agree, she was ambitious and organised. Something very strange about hanging on to those handover notes and people forget how weird keeping them under her bed is. Especially when she had another room dedicated to 'household maintenance'
She ferried these notes back and fourth, she stored some and took others two and fro.
She may have wanted to access them whilst in the work place as well as at home. imo

Her keeping them under her bed (while having a whole house for herself) sounds really....
I don't know ....

Insane?

I guess, if guilty, the public might get to know some interesting things.

JMO

 

[esther43]

Her keeping them under her bed (while having a whole house for herself) sounds really....
I don't know ....

Insane?

I guess, if guilty, the public might get to know some interesting things.

JMO

Can you even imagine if you were the parent?! You sure as hell would want to know #wft a nurse was doing with your child's medical records under her bed and also why at the same time your baby's symptoms was not in keeping with any known medical paradigm, according to numerous medical sources.

 

[Tortoise]

I think we’ve just been making an assumption that the ones relating to the case were separated out, I don’t think anything has been reported which suggests or confirms it.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

"The Morrisons bag had 31 handover notes, 17 relating to babies in the indictment."

The Trial of Lucy Letby: Episode 29, Arrested

...She returned on the 22nd of June and it’s the prosecution’s case that over the next three days she attacked and murdered two of the three triplets and attempted to murder another baby.

Jurors were shown a photo of the Ibiza bag and its contents. Inside were four handover sheets relating to her shifts on these dates and another from a shift on June 28th.

In fact the jury were told that in total 257 shift handover sheets were recovered from Lucy Letby’s home, and that of her parents, by police. Of those, 21 related to 13 of the alleged victims in the case. Four of the babies, babies A, C, D and K did not feature in any of the handover sheets recovered.

--

No handover sheets for babies A,C,D or K, means handover sheets for 13 babies.

21 handover sheets related to the other 13 babies.

Three of the 21 sheets, for three babies O,P & Q, were in the Ibiza bag.

That means 18 of the sheets related to 10 babies, B, E,F,G,H,I,J,L,M,N

17 of those 18 sheets relating to 9 or 10 of the 10 babies [B, E, F, G, H, I, J, L, M, N] were in the Morrisons bag - so 14 sheets in the Morrisons bag were not case-related.

1 sheet relating to a baby in the case was not in the Morrisons or Ibiza bags.

 

[Marantz4250b]

IMO after some thinking on this I’ve come to the conclusion....someone as highly educated as LL, who has herself admitted she was very career driven, who has been in the newspapers, someone who put herself forward for more training, obviously someone who wanted others to look up to her as someone of great character who was achieving a lot at such a young age, wouldn't make such a silly error of taking confidential handover sheets home, time and time again. I mean she must have retrieved them from her pocket prior to washing her uniform?

I do believe they were taken for some other alternative motive......the thousands of nurses out there, even some on this forum...obviously can make a mistake accidently take one home however I would imagine on discovery they would think 'oh ' and then destroy the handover sheet immediately, and certainly not allow them to build up. Maybe she doesn't like throwing things away, but these notes have emotional connections to other people she has encountered through her working day, and she was well aware she shouldn't be keeping them. And made a choice not to destroy each one as it was retrieved from where ever.

All just IMO of course but that's my penny thoughts for the evening

I agree with all of that. As I say, though, I don't really see their significance to her. They don't really seem to be trophies as they are far too numerous. Why keep the ones which don't relate to whatever crime you've committed?

It was suggested that they may have been an aid to planning crimes. That doesn't really make sense either because if you're using them for that then you'd surely get rid of them as soon as you'd got what you wanted out of them? In any event, would they even be any use for crime planning?

To my mind there is some other reason as to why she kept these and even took them home in the first place. Is there some fear she has relating to loss which was causing her to purposely take these things home and keep them? Just random speculation on my part here because it all just seems far too weird.

 

[esther43]

They don't really seem to be trophies as they are far too numerous. Why keep the ones which don't relate to whatever crime you've committed?

Just wondered if you'd ever considered that one of the reasons she may have had the sheets in different locations was to appear ambiguous?
The same could be said for the handwritten notes really. Jmo

 

[WaxLyrical]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

"The Morrisons bag had 31 handover notes, 17 relating to babies in the indictment."

The Trial of Lucy Letby: Episode 29, Arrested

...She returned on the 22nd of June and it’s the prosecution’s case that over the next three days she attacked and murdered two of the three triplets and attempted to murder another baby.

Jurors were shown a photo of the Ibiza bag and its contents. Inside were four handover sheets relating to her shifts on these dates and another from a shift on June 28th.

In fact the jury were told that in total 257 shift handover sheets were recovered from Lucy Letby’s home, and that of her parents, by police. Of those, 21 related to 13 of the alleged victims in the case. Four of the babies, babies A, C, D and K did not feature in any of the handover sheets recovered.

--

No handover sheets for babies A,C,D or K, means handover sheets for 13 babies.

21 handover sheets related to the other 13 babies.

Three of the 21 sheets, for three babies O,P & Q, were in the Ibiza bag.

That means 18 of the sheets related to 10 babies, B, E,F,G,H,I,J,L,M,N

17 of those 18 sheets relating to 9 or 10 of the 10 babies [B, E, F, G, H, I, J, L, M, N] were in the Morrisons bag - so 14 sheets in the Morrisons bag were not case-related.

1 sheet relating to a baby in the case was not in the Morrisons or Ibiza bags.

My question boils down to: was the Morrisons/Ibiza bag the bag that contained her 2015/16 sheets, and were the other folders/piles of sheets (c220 sheets) pre-2015.

 

[Tortoise]

My question boils down to: was the Morrisons/Ibiza bag the bag that contained her 2015/16 sheets, and were the other folders/piles of sheets (c220 sheets) pre-2015.

The article you linked says that the handover sheets were for 250+ (guessing must be the 257 total) shifts she worked June 2015 to June 2016.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Just wondered if you'd ever considered that one of the reasons she may have had the sheets in different locations was to appear ambiguous?
The same could be said for the handwritten notes really. Jmo

Yep, definitely it could. I just don't get the feeling that they are specifically connected to the alleged offences, though. Can't say why, I just don't.

Feels like there is some other underlying reason as to why she has them.

 

[WaxLyrical]

The article you linked says that the handover sheets were for 250+ (guessing must be the 257 total) shifts she worked June 2015 to June 2016.

Indeed, but that’s the only mention of it anywhere. Chester standard was on that day, and bbc were tweeting, and neither made mention of the time period the sheets related to.

I’m just concerned it might be a reporting error in that mail online article, and it would change the landscape of the handover note situation quite a bit if it’s not true.

 

[esther43]

Yep, definitely it could. I just don't get the feeling that they are specifically connected to the alleged offences, though. Can't say why, I just don't.

Feels like there is some other underlying reason as to why she has them.

Yes but what I'd she had them for opps planning. It would explain why she had so many, for selection purposes... And it would explain why such a high proportion of the alleged victims were in these work bags that she bought two and fro?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Just some points

this point I think is noticeable and I think really damning. The handover sheets in the Morrison’s bag earliest date is Baby b birth june 2015 then through to baby n April 2016. Two months approx off of a year. Also O p q were in the Ibiza bag after just coming back from Ibiza right? Only thing is the Rest of that year’s handovers were in the folder. Also the dates for the babies in the Morrison’s bag are broad and often far between, The only thing that doesn’t make that look like deliberate and selective placement is the other sheets in the Morrison’s bag Not related to charges. I don’t think you can explain that.

 

[esther43]

Just some points

this point I think is noticeable and I think really damning. The handover sheets in the Morrison’s bag earliest date is Baby b birth june 2015 then through to baby n April 2016. Two months approx off of a year. Also O p q were in the Ibiza bag after just coming back from Ibiza right? Only thing is the Rest of that year’s handovers were in the folder. Also the dates for the babies in the Morrison’s bag are broad and often far between, The only thing that doesn’t make that look like deliberate and selective placement is the other sheets in the Morrison’s bag Not related to charges. I don’t think you can explain that.

Why would you think that someone capable of premeditated murder on this scale wouldn't keep other handover notes? It's not like she could effectively target 100% of babies. She would have to to a little discerning and the handover sheets could have potentially aided that process by serving as an effective tool imo