UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

[Tortoise]

11:29am

Letby's message on August 8: "Tony phoned. He's going to speak to Karen and insist on the review being no later than 1st week of Sept but said he definitely wouldn't advise pushing to get back to unit until it's taken place. Asked about social things and he said it's up to me but would advise not speaking with anyone in case any of them are involved with the review process. Thinks I should keep head down.and ride it out and can take further once over.
Feel a bit like Im being shoved in a corner and.forgotten about by.the trust. It's my life and career."
Letby said she was feeling isolated and not able to speak to anybody on the unit.
Mr Johnson asks if that was really the case.
Letby said she spoke to some friends who she was allowed to speak to about the details of the investigation. They were two nursing colleagues and a doctor.
Letby's message: "It's making me feel like I should hide away by saying not speak to anyone and going on for months etc - I haven't done anything wrong."
NJ: "You knew at this stage you were being blamed for the collapses and deaths of these children?"
LL: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue

Slight delay to proceedings - few legal issues to deal with first. Jury due in just before 11am.


Nick Johnson KC has set out how he will conclude his cross examination (now each child has been dealt with). He said he's going to start with the text messages sent by Ms Letby after her removal from the neonatal unit

He said he will then move to the 'gang of four' doctors , who she has claimed concocted the accusations against her. He will then move to her searches for parents on Facebook, the circumstances in which she said she was isolated from friends and finally her arrest.

Mr Johnson is asking Ms Letby about the 27 June 2016. This followed the collapse of her final alleged victim, Child Q, on 25 June. She was told by the manager of the unit not to come in for her shift, in messages from the time she tells colleagues she is 'panicked'

Mr Johnson puts it to her that she was having a 'meltdown' as she realised hospital bosses had 'sussed out' what she 'had been up to' - 'no' she responds

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
@MrDanDonoghue

Mr Johnson pulls up a Datix form, that Ms Letby recorded on 30 June 2016. On this form she noted that a 'bung was open' on one of the lines for a child, JE (not part of this case). She said in a message to a colleague on 5 July that this could have caused air embolism

Mr Johnson says to Ms Letby that after she was told not to come on shift on 27 June she 'had her thinking cap on'....she responds 'no that's what I found with this baby and felt it needed to be documented'

Mr Johnson says 'you removed the port and reported it as a clinical incident didn’t you, to cover yourself so you can suggest this was a hospital so lax that people left bungs off intravenous access?' 'No', she responds

'This covered you for accidental air embolism didn't it', he said. 'No', she responds

 

[Tortoise]

6m ago11:26

Letby's 'meltdown' text messages after being suspended from work​

Nick Johnson, the prosecution's barrister, is now continuing with his questioning of Lucy Letby.
Letby previously said she was told she would not be returning to the neonatal unit a day before she had been due to work a shift.
On 27 June 2016, hours before Letby was due to begin a night shift, she was called by a member of staff and told not to come in for her shift.
Texts are now being shown to the court.
Letby to her male doctor colleague on 27 June (17.41): [Colleague] has just phoned telling me not to come in tonight & do days instead. I asked if there was a problem & she said No, just trying to protect me a bit & we can have a chat about tomorrow but now I'm worried.
Letby says she was concerned that "potentially I had done something wrong, that I had made a mistake".
Letby to [Colleague 2] (17.41): But I'm worried I am in trouble or something.
Letby to [Colleague 2] (17.46): I know but worrying incase they think I missed something or whatever. Why leave it till now to ring.
Letby says this was "very late in the day" to call her and tell her now to come in for a shift, especially because management do not work after 5pm.
More messages are shown.
Letby to male doctor (17.50): I can't do this job if it's going to be like this. My head is a mess. Why is she ringing at this time. There must be a problem.
"Were you having a meltdown," she is asked.
"Yes," she replies.
Letby to male doctor colleague (17.55): Messes with your head a bit to be told that at this time, would have sounded more reasonable if it had done earlier which is Why i wonder if it's come from higher up as she usually finishes at 4.
Letby is asked if she was concerned this came from above.
"Yes," Letby says.
The male doctor, who Letby was allegedly sweet on, tried to reassure her.
She replied at 18.00: I can't talk about this now.
Twelve minutes later she sent another message.
Letby to male doctor colleague (18.12): Sorry that was rude. Felt completely overwhelmed & panicked for a minute. We all worked tirelessly & did everything possible, I don't see how anyone can question that. [Colleague] has always been very supportive.
Letby is asked what she was doing in those 12 minutes.
"I can't answer that," she says.
Another message is shown.
Letby to male doctor colleague (18.16): I am having a meltdown++ but think that's what I need to do.
She is asked what grade of a meltdown she was having.
"At this point quite a dramatic one," Letby replies, before adding: "I can't define every emotion I was feeling at that point."

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[katydid23]

That's a biggie. I would like to know more as to the detail - when did LL's legal team sign off with her on this agreed 'truth' and since it's quite a dispute in accounts, surely they'd recall this?

ETA: Just saw Tortoise's post showing Meyers did ask for time to reinvestigate it

 

[Tortoise]

I'm wondering if LL had a meltdown and demanded her team 'admit' they made the mistake. When possibly she just never noticed or thought about it until she was asked about it?

Ben Myers stood up and said at the time he wanted time to investigate it.

Mr Myers rises to say the line of questioning is inappropriate, and asks for the opportunity to consider the issue raised [of a dispute in agreed evidence].
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 7 - cross-examination continues

 

[katydid23]

@MrDanDonoghue

Mr Johnson is now turning to the 'gang of four'. She previously told her trial a "gang of four" doctors apportioned "blame" on to her "to cover up failings at the hospital".

Ms Letby repeats that she believes there was a conspiracy against her, she says 'I believe there were shortcomings from the medical team and they put that on me'

Mr Johnson is now turning to Ms Letby's Facebook searches. He's asking why he searched for certain parents and says 'you were checking up on your victims weren't you' - she rejects this

 

[Tortoise]

11:38am

Mr Johnson asks about the 'gang of four' consultants who were 'out to get' Letby.
Letby had previously said the four were Dr Ravi Jayaram, Dr John Gibbs, Dr Stephen Brearey and one other doctor, who had apportioned blame to her 'to cover failings at the hospital'.
Mr Johnson says he will go through the cases.
He says for Child A, staffing levels were a shortcoming in administering a long line.
For Child B, nothing,
For Child C, nothing.
For Child D, the antibiotics being delayed 'may have had an impact on her'.
For Child E, the delay in giving him a blood transfusion.
For Child F, nothing.
For Child G, possibly the colleague had overfed the baby, but that was later retracted.
For Child H, the location of the chest drains may have had an influence.
For Child I, that Ashleigh Hudson should have put her on a monitor, and that 'potentially' Dr Chang being called away.
For Child J, nothing.
For Child K, nothing, other than the ET Tube may not have been secured.
For Child L, nothing.
For Child M, nothing.
For Child N, nothing other than it was busy.
For Child O, concerns raised by Sophie Ellis were dealt with on the charts.
For Child P, an issue with a chest drain.
For Child Q, nothing.
Letby says she did not know what babies the four consultants were discussing about.
"How do the shortcomings count for their conspiracy?"
Letby says a lot of the babies were not cared for properly on the unit.
Mr Johnson says is it Letby's view that the overall care was not good enough, they pinned the blame on her.
Letby agrees.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

3m ago11:38

'If they have nothing or minimal on me they'll look silly'​

The week after Children O and P died, and Child Q collapsed, Letby worked a final three shifts at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
During this time, she reported one child as being at risk of an accidental air embolism because the stoppers were left off their IVs.
Nick Johnson, the prosecution barrister asks Letby why, a few days after "having a meltdown", she was "reporting the risk of an accidental air embolism".
"You had your thinking cap on, didn't you?" He asks.
Letby denies this.
"An insurance policy going on here."
"No," she replies.
"So you can suggest this was a hospital where things were so lax people left the bungs of the intravenous access for these children," says Mr Johnson.
"No that's what I found," Letby replies.
Letby texted a colleague on 15 July that the babies in question became unwell after leaving her care, "or were already acutely unwell when I took over".
She says she began gathering information for her union representative.
Letby to colleague on 15 July (15. 49): Hoping to get as much info together as possible- if they have nothing or minimal on me they'll look silly, not Me.
Letby is then asked if she went on the attack.
"I don't think this was an attack, this was me responding to what was happening to me," she tells the court.
Her union representative advised Letby against pushing to go back on the unit.
Letby to colleague on 8 August (11.25): Asked about social things and he said it's up to me but would advise not speaking with anyone in case any of them are involved in the process... Feel a bit like Im being shoved in a corner and forgotten about by the trust. It's my life and career.
Letby says this colleague was her "best friend" and she had been looking for support, despite the fact she had been told not to contact people working on the unit.
Letby to colleague on 8 August (11.31): It's making me feel like I should hide away by saying not to speak to anyone and going on for months etc- I haven't done anything wrong.

Now11:41

Letby: 'Band of four' colleagues conspired against me​

Letby is now being asked about the "band of four" colleagues she claims were conspiring against her.
She is asked what their motive could have been.
"At this time I did not know what babies they were discussing, or what the allegations were," she tells the court, adding that she feared "anything that went wrong they could have put on to me".
Mr Johnson, the prosecution barrister, asks if she thinks "these doctors' motives were influenced by a conspiracy".
"Yes, that is what I believe," she says.
Mr Johnson asks Letby if she believes it was "above your paygrade to determine what the shortcomings were" in the care for the children involved.
"In the medical profession, yes," she says.
Letby has previously said she doesn't feel the "staffing levels at the Countess of Chester were at the level they should have been".
But Mr Johnson says Letby has failed to raise in each individual case where low staffing levels may have contributed.
"I think some of the babies didn't have adequate care over a period of time," Letby says.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Tortoise]

11:44am

Mr Johnson says Letby has failed to identify, specifically, an issue with staffing levels for each of these cases.
Letby says it was raised at times on the unit, in relation to the overall care for babies.
Mr Johnson says the point of this case is to determine sabotage for the babies or naturally occurring deficiencies. He says Letby cannot give specifics.
Letby: "No."
Mr Johnson refers to 'sub-optimal care for the babies', from Letby's defence statement.
NJ: "You are raising the point, aren't you?"
LL: "Yes."
NJ: "And you have been given an opportunity to speak about it."
Mr Johnson turns to the Facebook searches Letby made for parents of children in the indictment. Three searches are made for parents in quick succession. Mr Johnson asks what the link is.
Letby: "They are babies that have died and been seriously unwell."
Letby is asked about another series of searches for three parents' names.
LL: "They are babies that had something significant to them and they were on my mind."
Letby is asked why she didn't give that answer to the police.
LL: "Because I couldn't recall why I had looked at some of them."
NJ: "Is that a true answer?"
LL: "Yes."
NJ: "You were checking up on your victims."
LL: "No - I look at a variety of [parents]."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

11:46am

NJ: "You were a killer who was looking at your victims, weren't you?"
LL: "No."
Mr Johnson asks about a series of other searches, and says one of the parents' names has an 'unusual spelling'. Letby is asked to spell that name out in court. She does it incorrectly.
NJ: "You read it [the name of the parent] off a handover sheet, didn't you?"
LL: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

@MrDanDonoghue

Mr Johnson is now turning to the 'gang of four'. She previously told her trial a "gang of four" doctors apportioned "blame" on to her "to cover up failings at the hospital".

Ms Letby repeats that she believes there was a conspiracy against her, she says 'I believe there were shortcomings from the medical team and they put that on me'

Mr Johnson is now turning to Ms Letby's Facebook searches. He's asking why he searched for certain parents and says 'you were checking up on your victims weren't you' - she rejects this

Mr Johnson pulls up various searches made for the parents of the children in this case. 'You are a killer who is looking at your victims aren’t you', Mr Johnson says 'No', she says

Mr Johnson asks Ms Letby to spell the name of a mother she searched for who has an unusual name - she tries and gets it wrong. Mr Johnson says she could spell it because she was using a handover sheet to search for it, 'no' she says

 

[Tortoise]

11:49am

Letby is asked about another series of searches.
Letby: "They were on my mind at the time."
One search was made on Christmas Day, for the mother of Child E and Child F.
NJ: "She was the person who caught you in the act?"
LL: "No, [mother of Child E and Child F] and I had a good relationship at the time."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Mr Johnson says the point of this case is to determine sabotage for the babies or naturally occurring deficiencies. He says Letby cannot give specifics.
Letby: "No."
Mr Johnson refers to 'sub-optimal care for the babies', from Letby's defence statement.
NJ: "You are raising the point, aren't you?"
LL: "Yes."
NJ: "And you have been given an opportunity to speak about it."

and just like that, bang goes her defence

(MOO)

 

[katydid23]

11:49am

Letby is asked about another series of searches.
Letby: "They were on my mind at the time."
One search was made on Christmas Day, for the mother of Child E and Child F.
NJ: "She was the person who caught you in the act?"
LL: "No, [mother of Child E and Child F] and I had a good relationship at the time."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

How can LL say they had a good relationship? She has accused both parents of being mistaken and/or misleading or dishonest about what happened when mom went to see Baby E to feed him.

 

[Kemug]

My granddaughter was born around same time as the first victims in 2015. She was in a hospital here in California, for a procedure, as a newborn, in June of 2015. I often think of that and it makes me feel like this case is too close to home. We really relied upon the Neo-natal nurses for wisdom and comfort. It would have NEVER occurred to me that one of them could have attacked my little precious grand baby. I cannot even imagine....

Yes, if true, these attacks are not just horrible crimes, but are also acts of treason against the whole world of dedicated and caring nursing. IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

1m ago12:00

'Killer' Letby's Facebook searches read out to the court​

Nick Johnson, the prosecution barrister, then goes back through some of Letby's Facebook searches.
Letby has previously been accused of looking up her alleged victims' families online, and a series of searches are being read to the court.
25 June 2015
At 21:50 Letby searched for the parents of Children A and B.
At 21:51 Letby searched for the parents of Child D - Letby previously said she "didn't remember" this baby.
"What was the connection in your mind between those three people," Mr Johnson asks.
"They are babies who have died from being seriously unwell," Letby says.
5 October 2015
At 01:16 Letby searched for mother of Child I.
At 01:17 Letby searched for father of Children E and F.
"What did they have in common?" Mr Johnson asks.
"Again they are babies that had something significant happen to them and they were on my mind," Letby says.
"You were checking up on your victims, weren't you?"
"No."
He later says: "You were a killer who was looking at your victims."
"No," she replies.
Several other examples are read out to the court.
5 November 2015
At 23:40 Letby searched for the mother of Children E and F.
At 23:40 Letby searched for the mother of Child G.
At 23:44 Letby searched for mother of Child I.
Letby denies these families were grouped together for any reason.
25 December 2015
Letby searched for the mother of Children E and F.
"I often thought of [her]," she tells the court.
"She was the person who caught you in the act," Mr Johnson says, adding that this would have been reason enough to remember her.
"No, [we] had a good relationship."

Now12:01

Court has adjourned​

It is now taking a 15 minute break.

Now12:05

The jury has filed back in​

This morning's session has resumed.

https://news.sky.com/story/lucy-let...ws-blog-12868375?postid=6028917#liveblog-body

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Tortoise]

12:04pm

The trial resumes after a short break.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

12:10pm

Mr Johnson says Letby had given evidence surrounding her suspension from the unit in her first day of giving evidence to the defence.
She had said she felt very isolated from my friends and family on the unit, and her mental health had deteriorated.
LL: "We were a very supportive unit - regardless of whether we were personal friends, we were a supportive unit.
LL: "At the time the hospital advised me not to contact anyone on the unit...there were two or three friends I could contact, but [not to contact anyone on the unit]."
Letby is asked if that was true. "Yes." And if she abided by that. "Yes."
Letby adds that did change as time went on.
Letby has a document which she received from the prosecution this morning on her social life.
Mr Johnson says it "disproves everything" that Letby had said. Letby disagrees.
"You were telling the jury a sob story, that you had been cut off from your family as you called them, on the unit?" Letby disagrees.
NJ: "Were you looking for sympathy?
LL: "Yes, it was a very difficult time."
NJ: "Was it just a mistake?"
LL: "Yes."
The document includes photos of Letby's nights out and days out with colleagues, Mr Johnson says. They include a trip to London with a doctor colleague. Letby says that happened once.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[SusanDonim]

6m ago11:26

Letby's 'meltdown' text messages after being suspended from work​

Nick Johnson, the prosecution's barrister, is now continuing with his questioning of Lucy Letby.
Letby previously said she was told she would not be returning to the neonatal unit a day before she had been due to work a shift.
On 27 June 2016, hours before Letby was due to begin a night shift, she was called by a member of staff and told not to come in for her shift.
Texts are now being shown to the court.
Letby to her male doctor colleague on 27 June (17.41): [Colleague] has just phoned telling me not to come in tonight & do days instead. I asked if there was a problem & she said No, just trying to protect me a bit & we can have a chat about tomorrow but now I'm worried.
Letby says she was concerned that "potentially I had done something wrong, that I had made a mistake".
Letby to [Colleague 2] (17.41): But I'm worried I am in trouble or something.
Letby to [Colleague 2] (17.46): I know but worrying incase they think I missed something or whatever. Why leave it till now to ring.
Letby says this was "very late in the day" to call her and tell her now to come in for a shift, especially because management do not work after 5pm.
More messages are shown.
Letby to male doctor (17.50): I can't do this job if it's going to be like this. My head is a mess. Why is she ringing at this time. There must be a problem.
"Were you having a meltdown," she is asked.
"Yes," she replies.
Letby to male doctor colleague (17.55): Messes with your head a bit to be told that at this time, would have sounded more reasonable if it had done earlier which is Why i wonder if it's come from higher up as she usually finishes at 4.
Letby is asked if she was concerned this came from above.
"Yes," Letby says.
The male doctor, who Letby was allegedly sweet on, tried to reassure her.
She replied at 18.00: I can't talk about this now.
Twelve minutes later she sent another message.
Letby to male doctor colleague (18.12): Sorry that was rude. Felt completely overwhelmed & panicked for a minute. We all worked tirelessly & did everything possible, I don't see how anyone can question that. [Colleague] has always been very supportive.
Letby is asked what she was doing in those 12 minutes.
"I can't answer that," she says.
Another message is shown.
Letby to male doctor colleague (18.16): I am having a meltdown++ but think that's what I need to do.
She is asked what grade of a meltdown she was having.
"At this point quite a dramatic one," Letby replies, before adding: "I can't define every emotion I was feeling at that point."

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

BBM - this piqued my interest for some reason. Surely she must remember? Had a cry? Poured a drink to calm down? Why 'can't' she answer that?

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
7m

Mr Johnson is now taking the court through various items that were taken from Ms Letby's phone, Facebook records following her removal from the unit - they show various interactions with members of staff on the unit

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
6m

Mr Johnson says 'it is peppered with you socialising with lots of different people from that unit' She agrees. Mr Johnson says 'you had a very active social life didn't you', she says yes

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4m

There is interactions with a doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons - the pair went on 'away day' to London together in June 2017. Mr Johnson asks if they stayed over, she says no - he asks if the doctor was her boyfriend

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
3m

Mr Johnson pulls up messages after the trip were they've exchanged heart emojis - she says '(the doctor) is a married man, it was not a relationship at all it was a friendship'