UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

[ColourPurple]

I don't really get the significance of this; if you search someone on FB and don't get the name exactly right it'll give you suggestions. As soon as you click on a suggestion to view the profile it records that profile in your search history, correct name and all.

You don't need to type the name correctly in order for it to be on your search history.

I think the significance is that she previously said that she had a good memory for names and that's how she searched the parents, often months/years later ( rather than using the handover sheets for that purpose).

It's irrelevant whether Facebook offers suggestions even if misspelled, because Johnson will have the details of what spelling she used to search the parents. So if she used the (correct) spelling that was on the handover sheet to search them, and now in court gives a different spelling to that, it implies that she used the handover sheet to conduct her searches, and that without the handover sheet she wouldn't have been able to spell it correctly. The jury can then decide whether that sounds likely or not.

JMO

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I think NJ made a really good point about LL possibly using the handover notes to find out parents names and then searching for them on facebook. IMO it makes sense because how would someone who cares for hundreds of babies every year, who apparently has difficulty remembering even significant events still remember the names of these babies months/years later. Not even the babies but to remember their parents names. Which in some cases may have had a completely different surname to their babies (as many babies take their fathers surname) how would she still remember the mothers for example after all that time?

Unless you’ve got the names of parents written down somewhere how on earth are you going to remember them all once they’re no longer on the unit?
If guilty this thought is spine chilling considering there were so many handover notes found in her home that contained babies who aren’t listen in the charges IMO.
LL’s answer that ‘there might have been something significant about these babies that made me think of them’ doesn’t make sense when you think she was searching for their parents names IMO.

If guilty, the fact that she searched for one set of parents on Christmas Day suggests she may well have, as NJ claimed, been hoping to see a post written by the parents describing their grief. If guilty, she could have been watching them for afar and enjoyed seeing how her (alleged) actions impacted the families. It’s sickening if true.

MOO

 

[Sundial]

I just reread some of the last interactions they had, while she was still on the unit. Look how deeply devoted he was to her:

LL: Do I need to be worried about what Dr Gibbs was asking?
Doc. No. He was asking to make sure that normal procedures were being carried out. What exactly did he ask?

LL: I walked into equipment room, he was asking Mary who was present in room and how quickly someone had gone to him as I wasn't in the room. He asked who was there, I said I had popped out of room but Mary was in room and Minna at the desk.

Doc: All he was doing was checking that there wasn't a delay and that a room had been left empty. Was he HDU level because of uvc? There is nothing to worry about.

LL: Ok. Was worried because I wasn't with him at time, but Mary was in room and Minna outside, I had [designated baby who was not Child Q] in 1. ITU because of uvc

Doc: You can't be with two babies in different nurseries at the same time, let alone predict when they're going to crash.

LL: I know, and I didn't leave him on his own. They both knew I was leaving the room. Feel better now

Doc: Nobody has accused you of neglecting a baby or causing a deterioration.

LL: I know. Just worry I haven't done enough

Doc: How?

LL: We've lost 2 babies I was caring for and now this happened today. Makes you think 'am I missing something/good enough'

Doc: Lucy, if anyone knows how hard you've worked over the last three days it's me. The standard of care delivered is tertiary nicu level. if *anybody* says anything to you about not being good enough or performing adequately I want you to promise me that you'll give my details to provide a statement. I don't care who it is and I don't care if I've left the trust. Promise?

LL: Well, I sincerely hope I won't ever be needing a statement but thank you, I promise

Doc: And I don't either. You'll know that the coch nicu mortality rate is a bit higher than the network average. It makes people (consultants) look at trends and patterns. That may have been why Dr G came to ask. As for the self-doubt - you asked me this morning did I dream because I was worried about having missed something? No, and I don't think you did either. In fact for [another baby] you knew he was unwell and flagged it up immediately. I don't know the beginning of the [a separate baby] story because I arrived after the bleep. You didn't miss anything that I would expect an experienced itu trained nurse to spot. From a resus point of view you were flawless. It's why I am so happy to work with you. You don't flap, you give perfectly sensible suggestions and things run seamlessly. (You must be good Rackham said so (seldom praises)). No more doubt - it's not you, it's the babies. I don't know what happened to [Child O] and [Child P], and accept that the pm may not give any useful answers. I do wonder if they may have had adenovirus - it's terrible in neonates / perinates. [Child Q] is different. His behaviour is more bacterial (tachy, temp, reduced uo) I wouldn't be surprised if his bc comes back positive.

LL: Thanks, really appreciate you saying that. So relieved that it's you who has been there throughout.

Sun Jun 26th

00.12am
Doc: It's true. You are one of a few nurses across the region (I’ve worked pretty much everywhere) that I would trust with my own children. If you're worried - I'm worried. You should do the APNP course, you'd be excellent. (In a second reference to his children he adds) They’re possibly a bit too big now.
LL: Don't know what to say Thank you.
Doc: Self-doubt finished?
LL: I think so, thank you ++

Lucy Letby was transferred from unit over doctors' fears, trial hears

I thought about this at the time I read it thinking; gosh, he seems to be certainly falling over his feet to support her. To me it just feels more ott than I would have anticipated; as you say, devoted. It’s difficult not to see it as anything else (for me at least) tbh.
Also interesting how he says he’s worked pretty much “everywhere”. So he must have been commuting quite a distance from wherever is home OR staying in accommodation etc.
JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

I see it differently.

As if demonstrating it was a really silly idea that she was looking for sympathy.

JMO

Interesting. I saw it as her possibly laughing like "Durrrr OBVIOUSLY I was looking for sympathy. It was a stressful time."

 

[esther43]

Re her being "robotic, expressionless, emotionless"

It might all be the effect of meds, or depression or just plain resignation.

I don't think it is her usual demeanour.

IMO her Defence has been very weak so far, but maybe it will change in coming days, who knows.

Also,
this disagreement between her and Defence about the agreed fact (phone call to the child's father) looks really unprofessional (to put it mildly).

Im worried it might have some repercussions.

JMO

I couldn't see Mr Mr Nick Johnson KC falling short in that way...

 

[ColourPurple]

There was a time when a few babies would be on neonatal units for a very long time, but that was decades ago. I looked after one for a year! This was always due to lung damage post-ventilation, which was not so sophisticated back then and also CPAP wasn't in use. But by this time a stay of anywhere near 6 months was unheard of, certainly where I worked.

It sounded like Baby G and Baby I were both hospitalised for a long period but the time was spread between COCH and other hospitals.

 

[Dotta]

Interesting. I saw it as her possibly laughing like "Durrrr OBVIOUSLY I was looking for sympathy. it was a stressful time."

Often, such a short involuntary chuckle indicates that a person thinks something is ridiculous.

JMO

 

[Legal]

I see it differently.

As if demonstrating it was a really silly idea that she was looking for sympathy.

JMO

My impression at the time was that she'd misunderstood the question tbh. She'd already said something about it being a difficult time and being isolated and needing sympathy from friends and then he said something on the lines of but you lied to the jury about being isolated as you were out all the time with the unit, were you looking for sympathy? And she replied yes, it was a difficult time. My personal opinion at the time was that her answer related to needing sympathy from her friends, hence all the socialising, rather than from the jury. JMO

[paraphrasing above as I can't remember the exact words said]

 

[Sundial]

It was actually for me personally one of the biggest points of the day and the most memorable. The reason I say that is because he had crafted this situation which gave the impression she couldn't spell the name now but she was able to search for her first name correctly on facebook
(It was a very complex first name)

Mr Johnson then went on to reveal (from memory) That SEVEN handover sheets found in her property were related to this baby.

The way that exchange happened it created a real visual in my mind of Letby using her handover sheets to look up this parent.

It sounds silly but the way Mr Johnson crafted that exchange was almost like art !

This I feel is interesting and quite surprising; not just her trying to spell a complex name, but the fact she had seven sheets related to this one baby alone. Wow.
Moo

 

[ColourPurple]

Often, such a short involuntary chuckle indicates that a person thinks something is ridiculous.

JMO

I agree. But what did she think was ridiculous? Him thinking she was expecting sympathy when she wasn't, or him having to even ask if she was expecting sympathy when it was so obvious to her that she SHOULD get sympathy. Could be either tbf.

 

[Lincoln34]

Regarding your second question, not sure of CS2C's view but I really couldn't say. She just seemed expressionless, emotionless, robotic really. In my head I compared it to the testimony I read from the main witness in the Thomas Cashman case, who was aggressively questioned by his defence Counsel and from just reading the words written down, you could feel her passion and the fact she was speaking from the heart. LL was meh. She could have been buying a bus ticket, not defending herself against multiple murder IMO.


Not just spelt unusually, it was a name I'd never heard before. I couldn't even tell you what it was now (and I know I'm not allowed even if I could! But just to make the point).

I wonder if the medication she’s on has an effect on her manner. Any thoughts you knowledgeable lot?

 

[Dotta]

I agree. But what did she think was ridiculous? Him thinking she was expecting sympathy when she wasn't, or him having to even ask if she was expecting sympathy when it was so obvious to her that she SHOULD get sympathy. Could be either tbf.

I just answered the post without knowing the context, simply describing this involuntary short burst of chuckling haha

As for the reason for HER chuckle?
She seems to be a very disturbed person, so who knows what makes her do it?

It MIGHT have been just a NERVOUS reaction under stress.

<modsnip - off topic>

JMO

 

[Jayney404]

So what’s the alternative hypothesis if ll were innocent? That babies started collapsing of natural causes solely during the time she worked there, unluckily coinciding with her exact shift pattern, whist she accidentally took their handover notes home and searched for their parents?

Has another theory been purported?

 

[esther43]

I wonder if the medication she’s on has an effect on her manner. Any thoughts you knowledgeable lot?

I think it would be more likely to impact her behaviour if she had changed the dose or the meds.. But if she was stable on meds then really it's only the first 6 weeks that can impact things like memory, whilst you are 'adjusting'
I think symptoms of PTSD ( such as being startled and experiencing flash backs ) can also be well managed with antidepressants.

 

[Jayney404]

Here is an excerpt from her last police interview, right before her arrest:

"The interview then deals with a note that read: 'I DID THIS, WHY ME?'

An officer asks: 'Did what?'

Letby replies: 'Well, did something that led to these babies collapsing and dying…I felt that it was me – not intentionally – but through that situation, through the redeployment'.

[...]

Towards the end of her final police interview, on November 10, 2020, Letby was asked: 'Lucy, are you responsible for the deaths of these babies?'

'No,' she replied.

A few minutes later an officer asks how she is feeling. 'I'm just a bit exhausted now,' she said.

It would be her last comment on the investigation ahead of her trial."

Lucy Letby said 'everything got on top of me', baby murder trial hears​

Letby replies: 'Well, did something that led to these babies collapsing and dying…I felt that it was me – not intentionally – but through that situation, through the redeployment'.


This ^^^ is another example of her slick wording, and the way she tries to twist things. Essentially she says I felt it was me, my fault but through that situation , THROUGH THE REDEPLOYMENT."

WHT does that mean? How could her redeployment have anything to do with the bAbies deaths? Another load of bollocks in her slick answers.

​

​

Agree, she spouts this stuff without thinking. An astute officer would have picked up on that and asked follow up questions.

 

[Knitty]

Please continue at the Thread #25