UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #25

[Blondiexoxo]

So they came to her home the first time unexpectedly and in that search they located most of the handover sheets and removed them?

In which case, she wasn't to know they would come looking. However, she did know she was already under scrutiny and possible trouble or at least some form of controversy. It's hard to imagine why she didn't destroy the sheets before then. Maybe she was holding on to them so she couldn't be accused of misappropriating and destroying them?

JMO MOO

I don’t think she understood just how far it was going IMO. I think by the fact that she continued to work in her patient safety position, she maybe thought she was being looked at for negligence, I don’t think she realised it was a complex police investigation and that allegations of murder would be made. IMO she might have thought the only allegation worst case scenario was causing death by negligence.

Maybe she was also a bit naive when it came to the police and how they can and will show up unannounced with a warrant, remove you from your home immediately and search it. How she claimed to have PTSD because of the police showing up unannounced at 6am and taking her away in her pyjamas, it made me wonder if she told the jury this to try and point out that she was treated unfairly and they don’t normally show up unannounced MOO. The words she used made me wonder if she was naive enough to think the police would actually call her and let her know they’d be coming on x day at x time or that she’d be able to refuse a search of her home and have chance to go and destroy the notes and handovers.

Maybe, but less likely IMO that could explain the ‘I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them’ note. If guilty, did she write that note trying to convince herself that if she was guilty of anything it was of providing sub optimal care to the babies, but not murder. If guilty, was she trying to make it look like she was in despair over having failed as a nurse in some way by making a mistake which caused the deaths and collapses? Kind of how they say if you keep telling yourself something you start to believe it… did she if guilty, intentionally want the note to show she was in despair and tortured with guilt, but made sure to point out it was because ‘I’m not good enough to care for them’

The ‘ I killed them on purpose’ is hard to explain away, I suppose it’s possible she added it for dramatic effect along with the im evil and random scribblings.

But IMO there’s a stronger possibility that she just didn’t realise that the police would turn up almost 2 years since she stopped working on the unit, arrest her at 6am and search her home out the blue with no chance to do anything about it. Maybe panic set in when realising that they’d find everything and that could possibly be what caused the PTSD…

Some serial killers have unusual attachments to trophies and will hold onto them for as long as possible. If guilty, is that why some had moved to her parents home? Could she have been in the process of moving the handover notes to her parents home so she could still keep them but not in her house. I don’t think she even knew that her parents home would and could be searched aswell IMO..

All MOO though
JMO.

 

[Jayney404]

Just looking at aggravating factors (if guilty)

Abuse of power

• Abuse of a position of trust

Factors indicating a more than usually serious degree of harm:​

• Multiple victims
• An especially serious physical or psychological effect on the victim, even if unintended
• A sustained assault or repeated assaults on the same victim
• Victim is particularly vulnerable
• Location of the offence (for example, in an isolated place)

There’s potentially others that are relevant this was a cursory glance.

Moo imo JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Her back garden yes. Her back garden literally backs onto the cemetery or is at least just a stones throw away.

Maybe she's been subject to some form of demonic possession since living there and there's more to this life that we can ever understand. JMO.

 

[Honeybirdette]

I thought court was on today??

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I thought court was on today??

According to another forum I glance at now and then, so did they.

 

[Honeybirdette]

Letby jurors told to set aside emotion as baby murders trial winds up

The nurse is accused of murdering seven babies and trying to murder 10 others while working on the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

www.standard.co.uk

Looks like it is going ahead, but no one’s covering the reporting live.

 

[Sundial]

Plumbers don't usually touch electrics but he could be multi-skilled, we need to know more. So many questions.

I'm pretty keen to know if anything was written on the paper towel forced into the waste pipe and cannot believe no-one asked him this.

I’ve been thinking about this; the one occasion where he said a paper towel was put into the sink and the mixer tap was on. To me this sounds really strange. Why when these places have designated bins for almost everything in a hospital (sharps, confidential papers, human waste, generic waste etc etc..) WHY would a paper towel be put in or down the sink? Secondly, the mixer tap left on.

Could be quite irrelevant and a genuine mistake but this sounds really deliberate and strange to me. Given the circumstances it wouldn’t surprise me if there is something more to this. Doubt we would ever find out though.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I’ve been thinking about this; the one occasion where he said a paper towel was put into the sink and the mixer tap was on. To me this sounds really strange. Why when these places have designated bins for almost everything in a hospital (sharps, confidential papers, human waste, generic waste etc etc..) WHY would a paper towel be put in or down the sink? Secondly, the mixer tap left on.

Could be quite irrelevant and a genuine mistake but this sounds really deliberate and strange to me. Given the circumstances it wouldn’t surprise me if there is something more to this. Doubt we would ever find out though.

JMO

It is very strange. The Chester Standard reported that it was a wipe towel, so unlikely to have writing on it IMO.

eta And Daily Mail says a piece of white cloth!

Pumber called as the only witness in the defence of nurse Lucy Letby

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Letby jurors told to set aside emotion as baby murders trial winds up

The nurse is accused of murdering seven babies and trying to murder 10 others while working on the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

www.standard.co.uk

Looks like it is going ahead, but no one’s covering the reporting live.

That’s disappointing. Don’t these reporters realise there are people hanging onto their every word?!

I really hope we get live updates for the closing arguments.

 

[Tortoise]

That’s disappointing. Don’t these reporters realise there are people hanging onto their every word?!

I really hope we get live updates for the closing arguments.

The podcast ladies said they would be covering the legal directions in their Monday episode. And CS said they will be there next week to cover the closing arguments.

 

[Becci]

When my daughter was about 2 or 3 she did the same thing.
Put tissue in the sink & both taps on full.
Absolute nightmare & happened so quick.
Only good explanation there imo would be a babies sibling was at the sink lol

 

[Sundial]

Is anyone aware that Lucy Letby's Chester home backs onto a graveyard and Chester crematorium ?

Im catching up today; but all I can say is- if anything that’s missing (certain handover sheets or whatever), whose to say they aren’t in “there”.. one would never know and you’d have very little hope of ever finding it either.

Moreover, given the context of everything else and the book she allegedly had on her bedside; supporting a friend through grief i think someone said here a while ago; it all seems rather morbidly uncomfortable. Was that house selected for its “location”?

I have a very chilling feeling that when this is over with, there will be lots of staggering, unbelievable (and awful) things come to the surface. If guilty.

All MOO JMO

 

[DianaWW]

Letby jurors told to set aside emotion as baby murders trial winds up

The nurse is accused of murdering seven babies and trying to murder 10 others while working on the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

www.standard.co.uk

Write up from today.

 

[Sundial]

It is very strange. The Chester Standard reported that it was a wipe towel, so unlikely to have writing on it IMO.

eta And Daily Mail says a piece of white cloth!

Pumber called as the only witness in the defence of nurse Lucy Letby

Where ive worked, there are packs of wipe towels that come in packets which are dry. Almost just like a paper towel but has the texture of a wet wipe- just dried out.
They could “potentially” be written on. It wouldn’t be too difficult with a biro pen tbh.

To activate them to use in their wet state; naturally you just need water and hey presto; a wet wipe.
It could well be a baby wipe; but generally a lot of places in my experience strongly discourage parents from using baby wipes as it strips the skin. More so with very delicate fragile preemy babies; cotton wool is the go-to favourite and recommendation from many nurses where I live (uk and not too far from the accused home town).

However that’s not to say it couldn’t be a hand wipe or baby wipe one of the parents would have used either. But; why put it down the sink? That has to be one of the most unusual strangest places to me tbh, I’ve never heard of that before. They are almost always the bug bear of toilet blockages. That fact that it’s in the sink/down the drain and the tap left on.. imo is quite odd. Most adults know if you put a towel or wipe in the sink and leave the tap on; it’s going to flood out in some way just as if you’ve left the plug in.


JMO and again, could just have been a genuine careless mistake caused by anyone; yet strange really.

MOO

 

[Lincoln34]

I don’t think she understood just how far it was going IMO. I think by the fact that she continued to work in her patient safety position, she maybe thought she was being looked at for negligence, I don’t think she realised it was a complex police investigation and that allegations of murder would be made. IMO she might have thought the only allegation worst case scenario was causing death by negligence.

Maybe she was also a bit naive when it came to the police and how they can and will show up unannounced with a warrant, remove you from your home immediately and search it. How she claimed to have PTSD because of the police showing up unannounced at 6am and taking her away in her pyjamas, it made me wonder if she told the jury this to try and point out that she was treated unfairly and they don’t normally show up unannounced MOO. The words she used made me wonder if she was naive enough to think the police would actually call her and let her know they’d be coming on x day at x time or that she’d be able to refuse a search of her home and have chance to go and destroy the notes and handovers.

Maybe, but less likely IMO that could explain the ‘I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them’ note. If guilty, did she write that note trying to convince herself that if she was guilty of anything it was of providing sub optimal care to the babies, but not murder. If guilty, was she trying to make it look like she was in despair over having failed as a nurse in some way by making a mistake which caused the deaths and collapses? Kind of how they say if you keep telling yourself something you start to believe it… did she if guilty, intentionally want the note to show she was in despair and tortured with guilt, but made sure to point out it was because ‘I’m not good enough to care for them’

The ‘ I killed them on purpose’ is hard to explain away, I suppose it’s possible she added it for dramatic effect along with the im evil and random scribblings.

But IMO there’s a stronger possibility that she just didn’t realise that the police would turn up almost 2 years since she stopped working on the unit, arrest her at 6am and search her home out the blue with no chance to do anything about it. Maybe panic set in when realising that they’d find everything and that could possibly be what caused the PTSD…

Some serial killers have unusual attachments to trophies and will hold onto them for as long as possible. If guilty, is that why some had moved to her parents home? Could she have been in the process of moving the handover notes to her parents home so she could still keep them but not in her house. I don’t think she even knew that her parents home would and could be searched aswell IMO..

All MOO though
JMO.

Excellent and insightful post - many thanks

 

[Blondiexoxo]

The podcast ladies said they would be covering the legal directions in their Monday episode. And CS said they will be there next week to cover the closing arguments.

I need to catch up on this podcast I haven’t listened before, do they have extra bits of info other than what’s been reported on?

Plan to get the kids in bed tonight and have a listen. Partner is at work luckily he’s sick to death of me chewing his ear off about Lucy Letby, he says ‘can’t you talk about this with your websleuth people’ unfortunately the things I’ve had to say might just go against TOS

I must add he chews my ear off about games, work and plants which all bore me to tears, but I think trials are so interesting I can never understand why everyone isn’t as consumed as I am. Much more interesting than his plants IMO I tried to do a nice thing for him last week and dug all the borders over but accidentally mistook his Lupin that he’s been nurturing for 2 years for a weed and pulled it up. He insists I murdered it in malice, I might suggest he start a websleuths thread for the case ‘did blondie murder the Lupin?’!

 

[Sundial]

It is very strange. The Chester Standard reported that it was a wipe towel, so unlikely to have writing on it IMO.

eta And Daily Mail says a piece of white cloth!

Pumber called as the only witness in the defence of nurse Lucy Letby

Just seen the edit to your post;

Ok, that’s just strange too. Even as a white cloth, left in the sink/drain and with the tap left on. It does make you wonder with everything else considered whether it’s been created as a distraction OR if there was something on it; blood, from any of the charges alleged, fluid, milk etc.. so very odd.

JMO

 

[Sundial]

When my daughter was about 2 or 3 she did the same thing.
Put tissue in the sink & both taps on full.
Absolute nightmare & happened so quick.
Only good explanation there imo would be a babies sibling was at the sink lol

It would be good to know which room and which day it happened. Are there any cases the accused is said to be around/caused within this same or around the timeframe?
It could be a sibling of one of the babies but given the poorly nature of the babies in the unit; I don’t know how an adult/parent wouldn’t see this flood happening/water spilling over the floor as the plumber described.

This doesn’t sound to me like the sewage point she appeared to imply on the stand.
If guilty etc.
MOO

 

[Dcflag]

I need to catch up on this podcast I haven’t listened before, do they have extra bits of info other than what’s been reported on?

Plan to get the kids in bed tonight and have a listen. Partner is at work luckily he’s sick to death of me chewing his ear off about Lucy Letby, he says ‘can’t you talk about this with your websleuth people’ unfortunately the things I’ve had to say might just go against TOS

I must add he chews my ear off about games, work and plants which all bore me to tears, but I think trials are so interesting I can never understand why everyone isn’t as consumed as I am. Much more interesting than his plants IMO I tried to do a nice thing for him last week and dug all the borders over but accidentally mistook his Lupin that he’s been nurturing for 2 years for a weed and pulled it up. He insists I murdered it in malice, I might suggest he start a websleuths thread for the case ‘did blondie murder the Lupin?’!

lupins are my favourite is be miffed too! I get similar if I try and talk about it, so I just hang out here instead

 

[Tortoise]

This was a case in which the prosecution "substantially, but not wholly" relied on circumstantial evidence, he told the jury.
"The defendant was the only member of nursing and clinical staff who was on duty each time that the collapses of all the babies occurred and had associations with them at material times, either being the designated nurse or working on the unit," he said.

Outlining the defence's case, Mr Justice Goss said it was their view that there were "possible causes for many of the collapses other than an intentional harmful act" and the prosecution's expert evidence "could not be relied on".

[...]

snipped for copyright

Letby jury told to judge facts 'calmly and fairly' - BBC News

Nurse Lucy Letby is on trial accused of murdering babies and attempting to kill others at a hospital.

www.bbc.co.uk