UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #26

[Blondiexoxo]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue


Mr Myers refers to the theory of air embolus, he says if it worked 'why change' the method of murder - he asks 'why take any risks' by injecting insulin or forcefeeding milk. 'We say it doesn’t work because this isn’t what was happening'

Mr Myers focuses on a section of Ms Letby's cross examination, Johnson asked Ms Letby about forcing a tube into a child's throat - she said 'you think I put it in' - Mr Johnson said 'I do'. Mr Myers said the 'I do' had no evidential basis, he said it is 'allegation on the hoof'

IMO if guilty then this goes back to what NJ was saying about LL being a calculating individual, planning in advance and IMO changing methods so that babies would show different symptoms which would be less likely to make colleagues suspect these incidents were connected to the others, which would help her to avoid being caught. JMO if guilty….

 

[Tortoise]

12:22pm

Mr Myers says there is missing post-mortem examination evidence for Child E, which allowed the prosecution to present evidence of 'bleeding from the throat'. He says that allowed the prosecution to provide linked evidence. He says there is no evidence to show it, post-mortem.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[IDK]

12:04pm

Mr Myers refers to the theory of air embolus, and if that 'works' each time, why would someone change it up to administering insulin.
He says it is 'awful' to think about it, but to go with the prosecution case, he asks why the methods used varied.
He says the prosecution referred to levels of insulin were doubled for Child L than for Child F. He says for Child F the level of insulin, from the lab result, was 4,657, whereas for Child L it was 1,099, and the insulin/insulin c-peptide ratio was lower, and 'must be a quarter of the strength'. He says "that was evidence, it was wrong".
He says if there was an intent to kill, then the dose wouldn't be a quarter of the strength second time round. He says whatever happened, "that wasn't an intention to kill".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Interesting point— did the defense raise this as an objection when that evidence was given though?

 

[Tortoise]

I can see why he had spaghetti soup on his mind this morning. There doesn't appear to be a coherent structure to his speech, it's all over the place.

 

[katydid23]

He says 'there's been no reference to it' at the conclusion of the case, he says 'we think we know why' - 'it is obvious now that it isn't complete, this list. It's missing at least two events or maybe three' that could be considered 'harm events'


OK, here we go...buckle your seatbelts....Is BM going to introduce, previously undiscussed 'harm' events that can show LL is probably innocent?

 

[Blondiexoxo]

12:22pm

Mr Myers says there is missing post-mortem examination evidence for Child E, which allowed the prosecution to present evidence of 'bleeding from the throat'. He says that allowed the prosecution to provide linked evidence. He says there is no evidence to show it, post-mortem.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

What’s this about? I don’t understand what he’s getting at here?

 

[May72031]

The court artist has made him look quite haggard. In contrast, NJ looks like he’s been on a relaxing holiday in his portraits

I'd look haggard if I was BM.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

He says 'there's been no reference to it' at the conclusion of the case, he says 'we think we know why' - 'it is obvious now that it isn't complete, this list. It's missing at least two events or maybe three' that could be considered 'harm events'


OK, here we go...buckle your seatbelts....Is BM going to introduce, previously undiscussed 'harm' events that can show LL is probably innocent?

Surely he can’t do this now in his closing speech? He hasn’t brought anything of the sort into evidence has he? I thought he could only discuss what’s been presented in evidence
MOO

 

[katydid23]

Interesting point— did the defense raise this as an objection when that evidence was given though?

IIRC, the pros stated that the second insulin poisoning was a greater strength of insulin than the prior incident.

BM just said it was the opposite. In the UK, does the Prosecution have a rebuttal ?

 

[Dotta]

The "unit was busy" argument doesn't wash with me at all.

Nothing washes despite this "bucket of water" brought into Court

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Surely he can’t do this now in his closing speech? He hasn’t brought anything of the sort into evidence has he? I thought he could only discuss what’s been presented in evidence
MOO

Supposedly, one cannot bring in brand new evidence. Has he ever discussed these other three incidents?

He alluded to it in his opening arguments, but he did not present anything pertaining to it in his defense case. Why not?

 

[SleepyJoe]

IMO if guilty then this goes back to what NJ was saying about LL being a calculating individual, planning in advance and IMO changing methods so that babies would show different symptoms which would be less likely to make colleagues suspect these incidents were connected to the others, which would help her to avoid being caught. JMO if guilty….

100% agree! Does BM think we (and the jury) are stupid and wouldn't put 2 + 2 together to realise that only someone who is attempting to evade detection (and hence very calculating and premeditating) would experiment with different methods of causing serious harm?! If guilty....

 

[Tortoise]

12:29pm

Mr Myers moves to the topic of 'lists'.
The 'staff presence' of when staff were on shift during the times of the 25 events for the babies. He says it is a "major part of the prosecution case" that Letby is present "far more often" than other staff.
Mr Myers says it "doesn't show fault".
He says "one thing that is striking about this chart" is having focused on it in the opening, there has been no reference to it at the end. He says the jury might wonder why that is.
Mr Myers says it is "obvious now" that the list isn't complete. It is "missing two or three events" which could be considered "harm events".
He points to Child N's case at June 14, 'night', for Child N's second event at 7.15am. Mr Myers says that is correct, and evidence had been heard Child N was unwell that night. He says Dr Sandie Bohin identified that in her evidence. He says Letby wasn't on duty for the night shift.
He says the prosecution say Letby 'did something' before she left her shift the previous night - "what, we don't know".
He says the point is that Letby 'wouldn't be in that shift' and the note would be blank.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[SleepyJoe]

IIRC, the pros stated that the second insulin poisoning was a greater strength of insulin than the prior incident.

That's what I recall as well. I'm very confused by what he is saying here

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue


Mr Myers refers to the theory of air embolus, he says if it worked 'why change' the method of murder - he asks 'why take any risks' by injecting insulin or forcefeeding milk. 'We say it doesn’t work because this isn’t what was happening'

Mr Myers focuses on a section of Ms Letby's cross examination, Johnson asked Ms Letby about forcing a tube into a child's throat - she said 'you think I put it in' - Mr Johnson said 'I do'. Mr Myers said the 'I do' had no evidential basis, he said it is 'allegation on the hoof'

Mr Myers has pulled up this document - produced by the prosecution - says it is 'designed to put the focus on Ms Letby' and does not show wrongdoing







He says 'there's been no reference to it' at the conclusion of the case, he says 'we think we know why' - 'it is obvious now that it isn't complete, this list. It's missing at least two events or maybe three' that could be considered 'harm events'

He says 'there's been no reference to it' at the conclusion of the case, he says 'we think we know why' - 'it is obvious now that it isn't complete, this list. It's missing at least two events or maybe three' that could be considered 'harm events'
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Mr Myers says when other events are added on, it would show Ms Letby wasn't present - he says the basis of this chart starts to 'wobble

 

[Tortoise]

12:29pm
<snipped by me>
Mr Myers says it is "obvious now" that the list isn't complete. It is "missing two or three events" which could be considered "harm events".
He points to Child N's case at June 14, 'night', for Child N's second event at 7.15am. Mr Myers says that is correct, and evidence had been heard Child N was unwell that night. He says Dr Sandie Bohin identified that in her evidence. He says Letby wasn't on duty for the night shift.
He says the prosecution say Letby 'did something' before she left her shift the previous night - "what, we don't know".
He says the point is that Letby 'wouldn't be in that shift' and the note would be blank.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

This looks like more smoke to me.

This one wouldn't be on the chart because it's a theory of destabilising the baby before she went home, not an allegation of attempted murder.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

12:37pm

Mr Myers says there is a 'harm event' for Child C, as identified by experts, on June 12, 2015, which is not in the sequence of events, and is not on the list. He says Letby was not on duty at that time. He says the prosecution are "not that bothered" for that one as Letby "wasn't on duty".
For Child I, there was a 'harm event' identified which is not included on the chart, and says the table 'doesn't look so good'.
He says there was a third 'harm event', not featured on the indictment, for Child G. He says Dr Sandie Bohin had said there were no further projectile vomits. Mr Myers says he referred to a third event happened on October 15, 2015 by Ashleigh Hudson, at 7.20pm...'one vomit, projectile, quite large in size'.
Dr Bohin said if she had missed it, she missed it, Mr Myers tells the court. He added that was her attitude.
He says there are 'at least two, maybe three events' which happened for the babies when Letby was not on duty. Child C on June 12, 2015; Child I, August 23; and Child N, June 14, 2016, night.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

12:29pm

Mr Myers moves to the topic of 'lists'.
The 'staff presence' of when staff were on shift during the times of the 25 events for the babies. He says it is a "major part of the prosecution case" that Letby is present "far more often" than other staff.
Mr Myers says it "doesn't show fault".
He says "one thing that is striking about this chart" is having focused on it in the opening, there has been no reference to it at the end. He says the jury might wonder why that is.
Mr Myers says it is "obvious now" that the list isn't complete. It is "missing two or three events" which could be considered "harm events".
He points to Child N's case at June 14, 'night', for Child N's second event at 7.15am. Mr Myers says that is correct, and evidence had been heard Child N was unwell that night. He says Dr Sandie Bohin identified that in her evidence. He says Letby wasn't on duty for the night shift.

OK< here is one incident he wants to add to that chart^^^^---Child N's second event at 7.15am.

He says the prosecution say Letby 'did something' before she left her shift the previous night - "what, we don't know".
He says the point is that Letby 'wouldn't be in that shift' and the note would be blank.

Ahhh, it seems the pros has already discussed this incident by implying LL did something on her earlier shift to trigger it. I'll try and find out what was said...

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Highlandspring]

Whoahhh!!

No intention to kill is absolutely not her defence.

Here's a clue Mr Myers, she denies it was her, ergo you can't speak to her intent.

Like you said Tortoise, he's throwing absolutely everything and everyone at it. So much contradiction on his part already. No focus, seems to be pure desperation. Jury must feel dizzy.

 

[katydid23]

12:37pm

Mr Myers says there is a 'harm event' for Child C, as identified by experts, on June 12, 2015, which is not in the sequence of events, and is not on the list. He says Letby was not on duty at that time. He says the prosecution are "not that bothered" for that one as Letby "wasn't on duty".
For Child I, there was a 'harm event' identified which is not included on the chart, and says the table 'doesn't look so good'.
He says there was a third 'harm event', not featured on the indictment, for Child G. He says Dr Sandie Bohin had said there were no further projectile vomits. Mr Myers says he referred to a third event happened on October 15, 2015 by Ashleigh Hudson, at 7.20pm...'one vomit, projectile, quite large in size'.

Ok wait---is a projectile vomit the same as an unexplained collapse?

Dr Bohin said if she had missed it, she missed it, Mr Myers tells the court. He added that was her attitude.
He says there are 'at least two, maybe three events' which happened for the babies when Letby was not on duty. Child C on June 12, 2015; Child I, August 23; and Child N, June 14, 2016, night.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I want to go back to these 'harm' events and see if they were unexplained collapses or just a child feeling unwell.