UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6

[katydid23]

"Suspicion" is used in the wider sense here though. If you are arrested, for instance, you are always arrested on "suspicion" of a particular crime, for instance. Suspicion isn't just a bad feeling about someone, it's an opinion based on evidence.

At the time she was moved into administrative duties, there was not enough evidence to bring any charges against her for harming babies. All they had was suspicions. That is why she was still on the payroll. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The court is hearing from a consultant paediatrician who was on duty when Babies E and F were on the neonatal unit. Court orders mean we can’t name the alleged victims or this doctor.Nurse Letby allegedly murdered Child E and allegedly attempted to murder his twin F.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The doctor was on call in hospital accommodation on the night Baby E became ill. She’s recalling telephone discussions with a junior colleague who was treating E. The junior doctor’s notes concern 2 incidents when E had blood loss from his mouth and had a fall in blood oxygen.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The consultant says the notes show on the 2nd occasion Baby E’s blood oxygen level stayed at 60-70% despite being given 100% oxygen. “This suggests something dramatic has changed in their clinical condition.” @BBCNWT 1/2

“It suggests there’s not a problem with his breathing effort that’s making his oxygen saturation low.” @BBCNWT 2/2

 

[Sweeper2000]

The hospital already looks like a shower of *****, to be honest, and I'm sure will look even worse after the end of this trial. It's already been accepted that "sub-optimal" care was given in several cases. If it turns out that they actually did transfer a serial killer to a different shift in order to track the pattern of death and destruction they thought she was causing then people may end up in prison!

Really it does. This article mentions the review early on before any allegations. A total of fifteen deaths were investigated but not purely for the unit LL was on but involved still borns as well. Got no idea on if that’s a reasonable number but I can’t see a unit dealing with around six hundred births a year having a number that high. even with 7 of those being alleged murder it’s very high indeed. We can also assume that antenatal care was investigated as well. i don’t think there was a report in the few years prior that gave a good review, it’s always “needs improvement“ and I believe even the most recent one says the same. I’m not sure exactly what those words mean but think it’s safe to say it’s underperforming. It did however consistently perform well on being caring.

‘No single cause’ identified for rise in baby deaths at Countess of Chester Hospital

FAMILIES of 13 babies who died at the Countess of Chester Hospital have now been provided with “full and accurate information” about what…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

this recent report states the maternity services as being inadequate, it also states the unit was delivering over 2000 babies a year. It would be extremely difficult to remember any particular baby when you are dealing with that many babies in a year.

The Countess of Chester Hospital - Care Quality Commission

www.cqc.org.uk

This report states a total of three stillbirths for a year so I think this number is around what is expected. It really does put that figure of 15 deaths being investigated into a certain light. For that year there should have been less than ten neonatal and stillbirth Deaths. even if 7 of those deaths are murder that still leaves eight deaths on a unit expecting half that number.

 

[investikater]

OK so so far all I am seeing and hearing is coincidence, circumstance, hearsay and opinion. Does the prosecution actually have ANY objective evidence AT ALL?

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The doctor was on call in hospital accommodation on the night Baby E became ill. She’s recalling telephone discussions with a junior colleague who was treating E. The junior doctor’s notes concern 2 incidents when E had blood loss from his mouth and had a fall in blood oxygen.

I'm not sure this is accurate - might be reporter's error? - I think the notes referred to blood aspirated from the NGT, not his mouth.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

It’s alleged that Nurse #Letby murdered Baby E by injecting air into his blood. She denies this, as she denies all the charges she faces.

 

[Tortoise]

oh i see the trial has finally started. how is the evidence stacking up so far?

You've missed rather a lot so far.

JFYI the daily updates from the trial are posted in the media (non discussion) thread, link in the first post, if you didn't want to read all the discussion threads.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

When the consultant got to the neonatal unit E’s blood oxygen level was 80% in 100% oxygen. “They’ve improved since ventilation but they’re still not as good as we would like them to be.” @BBCNWT

An x ray showed E’s heart size was normal and his lungs were clear. “There’s no indication from the X ray why E’s saturation was low” says the consultant. @BBCNWT

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

11 minutes after the consultant arrived at the neonatal unit her notes say E’s blood oxygen had fallen to 50-60% in 100% oxygen and he had “no detectable [heart rate]”, so CPR was started. @BBCNWT

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The consultant was the team leader for resuscitation efforts for Baby E. She says she wouldn’t get involved in the physical tasks because you “lose awareness of the overall situation.”
@BBCNWT

 

[MissMarbles]

That, I think, was taken as she was attending a police station to answer bail or after being released on bail after having been held for questioning. There are a few similar ones, I believe.

I still think that the ones by the court artist are done in such a way so as to make her look more "murdery" than she presents in reality.

Maybe the drawing represents how LL comes across to the court artist, her impression of her?

Alternatively the way someone is feeling can dramatically alter the way they look, some earlier photos of LL show her with a big sunny smile.

Also with the passage of time chins drop, noses get bigger, creases become prominent etc. And maybe no opportunity to lighten hair in prison etc. My own opinions.

 

[Officer Dibble]

It says Melanie was the designated nurse for baby E, so why is LL texting saying she had him and baby F?

Melanie was the day nurse so I assume LL was the night nurse?

 

[merrypason]

OK so so far all I am seeing and hearing is coincidence, circumstance, hearsay and opinion. Does the prosecution actually have ANY objective evidence AT ALL?

This is a case of deaths in a hospital setting so findings from expert medical witnesses is the strongest objective evidence you will get. And they say the deaths were caused deliberately. You can choose not to believe them obviously (like we can choose to disbelieve some doctors and get a second opinion even in real life). But it is objective and their reasoning and rationale has been explained in detail.

Also you are hearing from the witnesses themselves about what they saw/did or heard (e.g parents, doctors, nurses) and a lot of the evidence is documented medical notes or text messages at the time or notes she herself has written saying things like, "I did it". That is not hearsay. Nature of the case means there won't be video camera footage of her doing anything untoward or a patient who can testify as to what she did (because they're babies). Whether you think she's guilty or not will depend on how much you trust the witnesses and experts and objective evidence being shown - some will, some won't.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Maybe the drawing represents how LL comes across to the court artist, her impression of her?

Alternatively the way someone is feeling can dramatically alter the way they look, some earlier photos of LL show her with a big sunny smile.

Also with the passage of time chins drop, noses get bigger, creases become prominent etc. And maybe no opportunity to lighten hair in prison etc. My own opinions.

Exactly, we've only seen social media pictures of LL, which usually show the absolute best version of yourself. They don't show you after several years in prison with no access to a lot of beauty/grooming products and they don't show you in courtroom lighting from whatever angle the artist can see her from, probably looking very glum.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The consultant says her notes “[don’t] tell me anything about what caused the collapse, just that [E] is extremely poorly.”

Resuscitation efforts for E were not successful and CPR was stopped. The notes say he was “transferred to Mum and Dad for cuddles”.

The doctor says at the time she thought E’s cause of death was necrotising enterocolitis (NEC), where part of the bowel becomes inflamed and may die. It occurs in newborns who are premature or otherwise unwell.

She thought this because E was an at risk baby, he had gastro-intestinal bleeding and he had skin discolouration. She agreed with the coroner that that she be put as his cause of death. But she now says she doubts he had NEC because …

…”[E’s] observations were stable right up to the point of collapse” and that’s not what happens with NEC, where deterioration is normally slower. There was also no sign of NEC on the X ray….

“I don’t think I gave that enough weight at the time, that the X ray was normal.” The doctor say she didn’t push the idea of E having a post mortem because his parents were so upset, “which is now something I regret.”

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The doctor is now being cross examined by Ben Myers KC who’s defending Nurse #Letby. She agrees with him that as a premature baby E faced specific problems. @BBCNWT

 

[Dcflag]

It’s so interesting (and rare?) to hear a doctor admit they did a lesser job than they could have.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

She also agrees with Mr Myers that a condition E and his twin F had where they shared a placenta can increase risks for them. Those risks can include NEC. Dr agrees E was at high risk for a number of conditions. @BBCNWT

In a police statement in Nov 2018 the doctor said she discussed with a colleague that E had “an unusual deterioration but in a high risk baby that was not entirely unexpected.”

Mr Myers says E’s blood glucose levels were high during his time in hospital were high and this can mean baby is labouring under stress. The doctor agrees but says they’re not unusual in babies like E.

When Mr Myers suggest again suggests that Baby E was at risk because he was less robust physically, the doctor says “His deterioration was well outside what we would expect.”