UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6

[MsBetsy]

[/QUOTE]

Isn't 15ml the equivalent of 3 teaspoonsful? That seems a lot for such a tiny baby to lose - I don't understand why it apparently wasn't considered urgent then?

One of the Doctors on the ward said he had 'never seen a baby bleed like this,' and the child lost 'more than a quarter of his total blood volume.'

Internal bleeding is life threatening. I would think a Doctor would have been called at the first sign of bleeding from the mouth at 9:00 pm when Baby E's mother brought the milk.

 

[BabaVanga]

Good morning. Not sure if anyone has already seen this but thought I would post anyway. The article has videos of the neo-natal rooms shown in court. Also a lot more in depth to the text messaging. Very very interesting


Colleagues of Lucy Letby told her she was 'terrible run of bad luck'

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

At 8.58am on August 4 a colleague asked: 'You ok? Just heard about E. Did you have him? Sending hugs *advertiser censored*'

Letby replied: 'News travels fast – who told you?

Does this seem weird to anyone else? It's almost like she's annoyed people are talking about it. Like it's gossip or something. You're colleagues, you should know and talk about when these things happen at work. It's hardly 'oh who told you I kissed X at the office party'. But she seems really annoyed to me

 

[BabaVanga]

At 8.58am on August 4 a colleague asked: 'You ok? Just heard about E. Did you have him? Sending hugs *advertiser censored*'

Letby replied: 'News travels fast – who told you?

Does this seem weird to anyone else? It's almost like she's annoyed people are talking about it. Like it's gossip or something. You're colleagues, you should know and talk about when these things happen at work. It's hardly 'oh who told you I kissed X at the office party'. But she seems really annoyed to me

Letby said: 'I just feel sad that they’re thinking of me when they’ve lost him'. This text from her. My God honestly :s

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Letby said: 'I just feel sad that they’re thinking of me when they’ve lost him'. This text from her. My God honestly :s

It's so odd isn't it? The parents of E & F seem absolutely lovely from that article, making a card and bringing a hamper in for ALL of the staff and LL thinks 'wow I can't believe they're thinking of ME'. Beyond belief

 

[Tortoise]

Just pointing out the obvious hole in Mr Myers argument here (not that it's needed with the mother's phone call to the father at 9.11pm) LL herself recorded that the scheduled milk feed time was 9pm:


Mr Myers said: “I am suggesting there were three times you went down that evening.
“I am going to suggest you went down about 8pm… then actually it’s nearer to 10pm – rather than 9pm – when you went down with the breast milk. And you then went back again when (Child E) was being resuscitated at about 11pm.
“Do you disagree with that?”
Child E’s mother said: “Absolutely.”
Mother ‘completely trusted’ nurse when she left ‘screaming’ son in her care

A further Letby (nursing) note reads: 'Prior to 9pm feed, 16ml 'mucky' slightly bile stained aspirate' recorded for Child E.
The neonatal fluid chart for the 9pm column records, under milk feeds, 'omitted', and the word 'discarded' is in a non-specific line. For aspirates, the note '16ml mucky' is made.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

 

[BabaVanga]

It's so odd isn't it? The parents of E & F seem absolutely lovely from that article, making a card and bringing a hamper in for ALL of the staff and LL thinks 'wow I can't believe they're thinking of ME'. Beyond belief

Yes it’s quite bizarre :/

 

[5W's]

I haven't been following this case but this article drew my attention how awful. The poor twins and their mother. I'm surprised that her collegues said that she had terrible luck. If they themselves had seen even one issue with a child it should have gone straight to investigation by the hospital as in a quality control situation and they would have for sure noticed. Her superiors and collegues dropped the ball on this. It is unacceptable people should be up in arms this happened. Because if there are no checks by officials and collegues let it go it will happen again its just a matter of time. Here's the article horrific.

Lucy Letby 'bathed body of one of her victims' in front of child's mother

 

[bbsaz]

Just pointing out the obvious hole in Mr Myers argument here (not that it's needed with the mother's phone call to the father at 9.11pm) LL herself recorded that the scheduled milk feed time was 9pm:


Mr Myers said: “I am suggesting there were three times you went down that evening.
“I am going to suggest you went down about 8pm… then actually it’s nearer to 10pm – rather than 9pm – when you went down with the breast milk. And you then went back again when (Child E) was being resuscitated at about 11pm.
“Do you disagree with that?”
Child E’s mother said: “Absolutely.”
Mother ‘completely trusted’ nurse when she left ‘screaming’ son in her care

A further Letby (nursing) note reads: 'Prior to 9pm feed, 16ml 'mucky' slightly bile stained aspirate' recorded for Child E.
The neonatal fluid chart for the 9pm column records, under milk feeds, 'omitted', and the word 'discarded' is in a non-specific line. For aspirates, the note '16ml mucky' is made.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

But she may have gone down with the milk at 8 and it not be due to be administered until 9

 

[bbsaz]

At 8.58am on August 4 a colleague asked: 'You ok? Just heard about E. Did you have him? Sending hugs *advertiser censored*'

Letby replied: 'News travels fast – who told you?

Does this seem weird to anyone else? It's almost like she's annoyed people are talking about it. Like it's gossip or something. You're colleagues, you should know and talk about when these things happen at work. It's hardly 'oh who told you I kissed X at the office party'. But she seems really annoyed to me

Completely agree, that jumped out at me yesterday. It seems a really odd thing to say when in theory it's her 4th death in 2 months. Why the paranoia? Plus OF COURSE it would be mentioned at handover, there is one less baby on the ward, and the parents are still there to attend to his twin... so odd

 

[mart321]

What are the "facts" of baby E. Is the death
a heamorage?

If so, this is surely what the mother noticed when she came at 9.11?

The baby lost a quarter of its blood so it must have been massive.

So the baby E is doing well and improving then suddenly has a massive bleed. The mother comes in and sees it and LL is stood doing nothing.

She then does/or doesn't make a note of it?

And does/ doesn't call the registrar?

It seems she blames the equipment coming dislodged? Surely this itself is not the cause of the heamorage and that is what resulted in the death.


What are the defence trying to get at saying the time was closer to 10pm

Could do with all the information or facts in a timeline.

 

[JosieJo]

But she may have gone down with the milk at 8 and it not be due to be administered until 9

If she had gone down at 8 that would be nurse handover

 

[JosieJo]

What are the "facts" of baby E. Is the death
a heamorage?

If so, this is surely what the mother noticed when she came at 9.11?

The baby lost a quarter of its blood so it must have been massive.

So the baby E is doing well and improving then suddenly has a massive bleed. The mother comes in and sees it and LL is stood doing nothing.

She then does/or doesn't make a note of it?

And does/ doesn't call the registrar?

It seems she blames the equipment coming dislodged? Surely this itself is not the cause of the heamorage and that is what resulted in the death.


What are the defence trying to get at saying the time was closer to 10pm

Could do with all the information or facts in a timeline.

The defence are trying to say it was 10pm because LL wrote her first entry about seeing blood and calling the Dr.
They are trying (and failing imo) to detract from the fact that it's likely LL delayed seeking help intentionally for around an hour

 

[Tortoise]

Chester Standard reported:


Ms Jones-Key: "That is not good, you need a break..."
Letby: "It's the luck of the draw...unfortunately."


Daily Mail got the full texts:

Ms Jones-Key then said: 'That’s not good. You need a break from it being on your shift'.

Letby replied: 'It’s the luck of the draw unfortunately…Only three trained (nurses), so I ended up having them both'.

Colleagues of Lucy Letby told her she was 'terrible run of bad luck'




I was going to say yesterday, before seeing the full text, that it was strange suggesting a break to LL because the texts seemed to suggest she'd been off work in July.

"The first evidence refers to text messages sent to and from Lucy Letby's phone on July 27, asking if Letby, on her time off, will be back in time for a debrief regarding the death of Child A. Letby says she will be looking to get back in time for that."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

Still, why is it her colleagues are treating these losses as harder for LL than anyone else on the staff, when LL wasn't even the designated nurse for babies C & D ? I think it has to be because of the way LL drew attention to herself and the deaths. Why are they treating the deaths as LL's bad luck and not the bad luck of the actual designated nurses? Why didn't they need the break from work? Why was LL so involved in telling colleagues why the babies died?

 

[bbsaz]

If she had gone down at 8 that would be nurse handover

Sorry, I was saying about the timings because the OP said the fact that LL recorded that the feed was due at 9 supports the prosecution argument that Mum went down at 9, not 8. I was just pointing out that she could have theoretically taken the milk down an hour earlier. I don't for one minute think the Mum got the timings wrong, but just saying it could technically have happened as the milk doesn't need to be delivered exactly at the same time as it is due to be used

 

[JosieJo]

Another thought I had this morning

The defence were trying to get the mum of baby E to say it may not have been blood around the mouth.
Yet her testimony also states she asked LL why there was blood ..she said due to the tube. Not that "it may not be blood"

 

[Tortoise]

But she may have gone down with the milk at 8 and it not be due to be administered until 9

Mr Myers said LL's case is the mother took the milk at around 10pm.

 

[katydid23]

Mr Myers said LL's case is the mother took the milk at around 10pm.

It is a good thing her phone records and her husband's testimony support her version---which is she went to her baby's room around 9 pm.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I don't get the feeling it is about 'Me Me ME' attention seeking. Her many FB searches to see about the bereaved parents makes me think she wants to impact others. I feel she has anger and resentment towards happy parents and she wants to ruin their happiness and then she wants to watch them afterwards, to measure the effects. JMO

Me either but it has been suggested, a lot, both on here and elsewhere that some sort of attention seeking behaviour/compulsion was the reason for it, if she is indeed guilty. I've seen very little evidence of that and the texts certainly lend no weight to it, I don't think.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Isn't 15ml the equivalent of 3 teaspoonsful? That seems a lot for such a tiny baby to lose - I don't understand why it apparently wasn't considered urgent then?

Agreed. I'm getting the impression that lots and lots of things should have been done that weren't. If she is guilty then I think it's likely that she could have been stopped a lot earlier if the hospital was doing its job properly!