UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

[Sweeper2000]

It wasn't clear but to me it sounded as if the matron had said that all babies had to remain in their original rooms ( in that case N1) and that parents shouldn't hold their baby due to risk of infection. It wasn't clear whether these restrictions had been lifted by the time LL decides to take the baby out of the cot so parents could hold him. ( Might be nothing, me misinterpreting)

The other thing re ColourPurple's post is that ambiguous text exchange ( autumn 2015) suggests that a nursing colleague/s knew something wasn't right, at the very least.
( I'd always wondered whether or which nurses also had misgivings like the consultants)

Hmmm as far as I remember the rules about not handling that baby was due to his health. Even ll remarked about not handling him ain e birth for seven days. Must mean it was a rule for him. ill check again.

im sure at least some of the nurses thought something was up. We kno The trainees did call her the angel of death.

 

[cottonweaver]

I didn't know that anybody called her that!

 

[Sweeper2000]

I didn't know that anybody called her that!

wasn’t presented as evidence in the trial but came out after.

It was no secret that Letby was present when the infants suddenly collapsed, yet her crimes were so subtle they were imperceptible. Trainees started referring to her as “the angel of death”, the Guardian has been told, although it was “tongue in cheek” rather than because they suspected her of foul play.

Lucy Letby: how did a nurse commit such unthinkable murders?

Trial detailed the deaths of newborns and harm done to other babies – but we may never know why she became a murderer

www.theguardian.com

 

[esther43]

Interesting article regarding another family who were cared for by letby and whose baby died. Also another handwritten message from letby, though this time it seems it was a 'team card' rather than Letby sending her own personal card as was known previously.

Lucy Letby: Deeside mum haunted by photo with baby before death

Emily Morris says it's "hard to see" Letby's "weird" behaviour around her son caught on camera.

www.bbc.com

 

[ColourPurple]

Interesting article regarding another family who were cared for by letby and whose baby died. Also another handwritten message from letby, though this time it seems it was a 'team card' rather than Letby sending her own personal card as was known previously.

Lucy Letby: Deeside mum haunted by photo with baby before death

Emily Morris says it's "hard to see" Letby's "weird" behaviour around her son caught on camera.

www.bbc.com

I do feel like the christenings and priest's blessings were something LL enjoyed and orchestrated too.

 

[Dotta]

Religious elements seemed to play significant role in her madness.

Her role of being a Godmother is interesting.
And it was religious involvement as I suspected earlier, considering her background as we know now.

Although some posters rejected my idea then.

JMO

 

[esther43]

Religious elements seemed to play significant role in her madness.

Her role of being a Godmother is interesting.
And it was religious involvement as I suspected earlier, considering her background.

JMO

Interesting thought Dotta. The words " I photographed that because it's nice to remember the kind things I've done' " is just a bit spooky.
I think she was very confused and possibly there was an absurd line between her "sense of duty" and her "sense of mastery"

 

[ColourPurple]

partial transcript -

Michael Buchanan: This is the story of an NHS Trust that didn’t properly investigate why 13 babies died unexpectedly in a one-year period. Instead it turned against the very people who wanted the police to examine the deaths. […]

The first three babies died in June 2015. The executive team held a meeting at which it was agreed that an external investigation into the deaths would be held. It never happened.

By October, with seven babies now dead, a staff analysis of the incidents made a link between all the deaths and Lucy Letby being on shift, but it was still seen as coincidental.

In February 2016 with 10 babies now dead, the Director of Nursing, Alison Kelly, and Ian Harvey, the Medical Director, were asked for an urgent meeting to discuss the deaths and Lucy Letby’s links to all of them. They didn’t respond for three months. [...]

In June 2016, two babies died on consecutive days. 13 children had now died. Lucy Letby was on shift for all of them.

---

My schedule of convictions - showing seven deaths highlighted


8 Jun 2015 - Twin A - murder - boy - night – room 1 - designated
10 Jun 2015 - Twin B - attempted murder – girl - night – room 1 – Anon 5 mentor designated – LL room 3
14 Jun 2015 - C - murder – boy - night – room 1 – Sophie Ellis designated – LL room 3
22 Jun 2015 - D - murder - girl- night – room 1 – Caroline Oakley designated – LL room 1
4 Aug 2015 - Twin E - murder - boy - night – room 1 - designated
5 Aug 2015 - Twin F - attempted murder - boy - night – room 2 – Anon 5 mentor designated – LL room 2
7 Sep 2015 - G - attempted murder – girl - night – room 2 - Anon 4 designated – LL room 1
21 Sep 2015 - G - attempted murder - day - room 4 - designated
23 Oct 2015 - I - murder - night – room 1 – Ashleigh Hudson designated – LL room 3
9 Apr 2016 - Twin L - attempted murder – boy - day – room 1 – Mary Griffith designated – LL room 1
9 Apr 2016 - Twin M - attempted murder – boy - day – room 1 – Mary Griffith designated – LL room 1
3 Jun 2016 - N - attempted murder – boy - night – room 1 – Christopher Booth designated – LL room 4
23 Jun 2016 - Triplet O - murder - boy - day – room 2 - designated
24 Jun 2016 - Triplet P - murder – boy - day – room 2 - designated – but care transferred – non-designated

Thanks for this! I hadn't seen it before.

So there we have it. The confirmation that there were 13 deaths in total in that one year period, June 2015 to June 2016, and that LL had been on duty for every single one of those 13 deaths.

 

[ColourPurple]

Religious elements seemed to play significant role in her madness.

Her role of being a Godmother is interesting.
And it was religious involvement as I suspected earlier, considering her background as we know now.

Although some posters rejected my idea.

JMO

And we know Beverley Allitt was made Godmother to one of the babies she had tried to murder and whose twin she had murdered. LL came close to being Godmother to one baby until the parents decided not to ask her. I wonder if any other parents, outside of the charges did end up asking her to be Godmother.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Thanks for this! I hadn't seen it before.

So there we have it. The confirmation that there were 13 deaths in total in that one year period, June 2015 to June 2016, and that LL had been on duty for every single one of those 13 deaths.

Anyone think that information in the trial would have made for a different outcome?

quite a big point from the prosecution was that the number of deaths far exceeded what was normal. It would have been without murders anyway Which might put the unit in a certain light. I knew the actual number months ago but presumed it wasn’t admissible as evidence.

 

[ColourPurple]

Anyone think that information in the trial would have made for a different outcome?

quite a big point from the prosecution was that the number of deaths far exceeded what was normal. It would have been without murders anyway Which might put the unit in a certain light. I knew the actual number months ago but presumed it wasn’t admissible as evidence.

Well one of the arguments by those who thought she was innocent was "Ah but they've only concentrated on deaths that happened when LL was on duty... how many of the other deaths that year happened when LL was NOT on duty?" Well now we have our answer... none! They wrongly assumed that there were other deaths that she wasn't there for but no, she was on duty for every single death that year. Which also means there were no deaths when she was off shift or when she was on holiday either. I don't think the info would have worked in her favour at all.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, he spent literally 5 minutes at the end of her 10th day of cross-examination, worked out from the timing of the updates we received.

I feel like NJ purposely glossed over her notes, at the very end of cross. I don't think he wanted her to be able to give some well thought out explanation, like the one Meyers used. NJ wanted them to take them literally for what they said.

I think it was better for the jury to be able to figure out the meaning of those notes on their own. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Anyone think that information in the trial would have made for a different outcome?

quite a big point from the prosecution was that the number of deaths far exceeded what was normal. It would have been without murders anyway Which might put the unit in a certain light. I knew the actual number months ago but presumed it wasn’t admissible as evidence.

LL was on duty for all 13. So maybe those were on her too?

If there were 6 other unexplained deaths, but LL was NOT on duty for them, that could create some reasonable doubt imo/

Since she was present for all 13, makes it seem like she was a very busy sociopath.

 

[Dotta]

LL was on duty for all 13. So maybe those were on her too?

If there were 6 other unexplained deaths, but LL was NOT on duty for them, that could create some reasonable doubt imo/

Since she was present for all 13, makes it seem like she was a very busy sociopath.

How deluded one must be not to realize that such killing spree had to draw attention and create suspicions.

Did this criminal think she could carry on murdering patients indefinitely?

She seemed to be oblivious of reality surrounding her.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

I don’t actually think the cps is looking to convict her fo4 any other deaths in 2015/16. They would have done it already.

think That means there are six deaths that she isn’t thought to have been involved with.

 

[NeverPersonal]

could someone please give me a summary of the evidence against lucy?
i have been fruitless in my search and it is frustrating.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Found it, so it's a different attack & different year ( mum on podcast is Feb 2016 ) but the same kind of irritation at not having access

@dotr posted this

''13 June 2015: Five days after Baby A's murder, and the day before she kills Baby C, Letby has an irritable exchange with a colleague over her manager's refusal to let her go back to work in intensive care.
She says when she worked at Liverpool Women's Hospital, she found she needed to go straight back and care for another baby "otherwise the image of the one you lost never goes".

The colleague disagrees, telling her to take a break:
Colleague: I agree with her don't think it will help. You need a break from full on ITU... It sounds very odd and I would be complete opposite.
[…]
Letby: Forget i said anything, I'll be fine, It's part of the job just don't feel like there is much team spirit tonight X
The conversation continues into the evening, until 23:09 when Letby signs off saying "Sleep well xx".
Six minutes later, Baby C falls critically ill.

Letby had been assigned to a child elsewhere in the unit, but that night she enters the nursery where Baby C is and feeds air into his stomach through a nasogastric tube, causing his collapse.''

Dotr's post from thread 33, has the full transcript where LL next goes whining to nurse Mary Griffith GUILTY - UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

thanks for dotr's comment, also very much enjoyed reading @Blondiexoxo underneath that

 

[notsure]

How deluded one must be not to realize that such killing spree had to draw attention and create suspicions.

Did this criminal think she could carry on murdering patients indefinitely?

She seemed to be oblivious of reality surrounding her.

JMO

Obviously, to do those things, she would have to have lost touch with reality. It was a compulsion - she was incapable of stopping. IMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

could someone please give me a summary of the evidence against lucy?
i have been fruitless in my search and it is frustrating.

Try the media thread. There have been some very consistent efforts from people making sure is detailed so expect a long read. tortoise has mostly made Nat thread what it is today.

UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Lucy Letby is on trial in the UK, charged with the murders of 7 infants and the attempted murder of 15 other infants. Media, Maps & Timelines can be posted here. *NO DISCUSSION* in this thread or your post will be removed.

www.websleuths.com

 

[NeverPersonal]

It's this case. The link has the texts that LL sent to the Mum

We trusted Lucy Letby so much we wanted her to be our baby's godmother

Podcast. Husband ' she was always around him'

blood in the nappy! Is that the second or third case of that?

i am wondering if insulin overdose causes bloody urine?