UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

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When will we find out what grounds she’s appealing on?
Will it be weeks away, months away?

She had a very well funded defense (£1mill plus so far) with one of the top KC’s in the country. I wonder if it relates to any of the defences expert evidence that wasn’t used in court for whatever reasons? Maybe the judge had not allowed it possibly, something along them lines
 
If she's really determined to lodge for an appeal, her lawyer will have to come up with something, even if he himself thinks it won't succeed. He could just make some vague complaints that the judge's summing-up didn't give enough weight to the defence, just to go through the motions.
 
Cuko said:
I’m no lawyer, but I’m struggling to think what possible grounds there could be for appeal. The judge bent over backwards to accommodate her wishes and make things easier for her in court.
Click to expand...
I really think appeals are almost always expected on whatever grounds.
That is why I thought they were "automatic".

But, of course, it does not mean they will be successful.

They rarely are.

JMO
 
Phoenix Lazarus said:
If she's really determined to lodge for an appeal, her lawyer will have to come up with something, even if he himself thinks it won't succeed. He could just make some vague complaints that the judge's summing-up didn't give enough weight to the defence, just to go through the motions.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why the reporter at the link has added this paragraph.

'Summing up at the end of her trial, judge Mr Justice Goss told the jury it was a case in which the prosecution "substantially, but not wholly" relied on circumstantial evidence.'

I wish they'd give their legal affairs reporters the task of reporting legal news
www.bbc.co.uk

Lucy Letby to appeal against baby murder convictions

The nurse became the UK's most prolific child killer in modern times when she was convicted last month.
www.bbc.co.uk

media thread transcipt of judge's summing-up across days 1 -5.
www.websleuths.com

UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

JUDGE'S SUMMING UP - Monday 3rd July 2023 Day 1- Morning Session LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, July 3 - judge's summing up 8:36am Today, trial judge Mr Justice James Goss is expected to begin his summing up of the case, a process which is expected to last this week. Members of the jury have...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

Also, contrary to BBC report I can't find that paragraph in his summing-up ( Unless there's something wrong with my word search) So maybe it wasn't summing-up in July but a set of directions on another date?
 
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Cuko said:
Does anyone on here think there’s even a miniscule chance LL was wrongfully convicted?

EBM for spelling error
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Nope.

There are, however, some crazies online who spread all sorts of misformation that her trial was "unsafe". When you drill them for specifics, they can't provide them, except to advance conspiracy theories.

Oh, and if you ever get into an "debate" with them, you quickly find out they subscribe to lots of other crankish conspiracy theories. I've not met one of them that wasn't an 'anti-vaxxer', for example.
 
May72031 said:
Nope.

There are, however, some crazies online who spread all sorts of misformation that her trial was "unsafe". When you drill them for specifics, they can't provide them, except to advance conspiracy theories.

Oh, and if you ever get into an "debate" with them, you quickly find out they subscribe to lots of other crankish conspiracy theories. I've not met one of them that wasn't an 'anti-vaxxer', for example.
Click to expand...
'circumstantial evidence isn't real evidence'
Do they have that on the cranks bingo card?

or
Plumber Lorenzo Mansutti had Occams Razor in his toolbag- HashtagFreeLucy
 
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Cuko said:
Does anyone on here think there’s even a miniscule chance LL was wrongfully convicted?

EBM for spelling error
Click to expand...

She has nothing to lose at this stage so an appeal seems pretty much par for the course.

Personally I can't imagine on what grounds her appeal would be based but the reality is, it will only be approved if it has some genuine substance to it - ie that it's not eg. based on some unhinged 'science' loon on the internet. Although I very much doubt any legal team of worth would go down that particular route.

I'm intrigued to know what the grounds are though.
 
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Cuko said:
Does anyone on here think there’s even a miniscule chance LL was wrongfully convicted?

EBM for spelling error
Click to expand...

“The statistics related to wrongful convictions, and to race and wrongful convictions, are profoundly disturbing and illustrative of a deeply rooted problem. Studies estimate that between 4-6% of people incarcerated in US prisons are actually innocent.”

www.georgiainnocenceproject.org

Beneath the Statistics: The Structural and Systemic Causes of Our Wrongful Conviction Problem

The statistics related to wrongful convictions, and to race and wrongful convictions, are profoundly disturbing and illustrative of a deeply rooted problem. Studies estimate that between 4-6% of people incarcerated in US prisons are actually innocent.
www.georgiainnocenceproject.org www.georgiainnocenceproject.org

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1799534/wrongful-convictions-uk-charts-andrew-malkinson-spt#:~:text=Wrongful%20conviction%20applications%20jumped%20nearly%2020%25%20last%20year&text=In%20the%2012%20months%20between,year%20–%20from%201%2C198%20to%201%2C424.


A total of 25 cases were sent back to the courts by the body – including six murder charges – resulting in 17 convictions or sentences being overturned.


it’s actually not Impossble but let’s look at the Situation as a whole.
there is a difference in evidence comparatively between multiple murders and one. The evidence tying Lucy to the crimes is actually consistent and as the judge said if she did one did she do others? So all in all wit each g charge she’s looking More and more to have done it. the likelihood of error is diminishing with every g charge. whereas the like
i of error when it comes to proving one individual did this one action is much harder to be sure it’s not erroneous.

I also think the sheer scale of the investigation wouldn’t actually leave much room for doubt either.
 
JosieJo said:
I'd imagine her parents would be knocking on her teams door to demand an appeal before the Judge had removed his Wig ..jmo
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I'd imagine they were way too devastated to do much more than try and breathe and stay upright after the verdicts.

They didn't kill anyone or contribute to killing anyone. They're as much victims of LL as all the other bereaved parents are.

Their lives are destroyed. Isn't that enough? Can we not leave them alone now?
 
May72031 said:
Nope.

There are, however, some crazies online who spread all sorts of misformation that her trial was "unsafe". When you drill them for specifics, they can't provide them, except to advance conspiracy theories.

Oh, and if you ever get into an "debate" with them, you quickly find out they subscribe to lots of other crankish conspiracy theories. I've not met one of them that wasn't an 'anti-vaxxer', for example.
Click to expand...
Yes - why is that?

In the UK they would be anti-vax, masks can kill you, climate change is a hoax, Brexit is an incredible success. Oh and if you got run over by a bus or died for any reason at all and had been vaccinated in the previous six months your death was due to the vaccine.
 
Anxala said:
I'd imagine they were way too devastated to do much more than try and breathe and stay upright after the verdicts.

They didn't kill anyone or contribute to killing anyone. They're as much victims of LL as all the other bereaved parents are.

Their lives are destroyed. Isn't that enough? Can we not leave them alone now?
Click to expand...

My comment was purely based on their actions previously..for example turning up in person to the Chief Exec during their adult daughters hospital "troubles" and LLs own claims that they were suffocating at times.
I've no doubt they are devastated
 
Re: The discussion about whistleblowers being ignored and then targetted by HR/management, with management turning a blind eye to all the failings.

This happens everywhere and it all boils down to one thing. Managers' egos and their own sense of security in their jobs. A whistleblower who points out failings is essentially criticising the way things are run and, by extension, the people who are running things. When managers double-down and take action against the whistleblower, it should be a sign that things are, indeed, not working as they should be and the people responsible are the ones in charge.

By contrast, a good / efficient manager would actively want to improve things, putting their own egos aside concerning any decisions they might have made in the past which resulted in said failings. However, positions of power attract the most narcissistic amongst us, regardless of ability or suitability for the job. And preserving one's ego is a key motivator for narcissists.
 
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