UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

[Sweeper2000]

@squish where you from ? Very distinct accent you have there. . I was a bit surprised by your description of her being a toothy person. I did think she would shy away from confrontation, you described a fronty person.


really interesting video guys, well done on its production. A chat from Possibly two of the most informed talkers on the case on the web. you actually were at the trial as well. Excellent.

Fascinating to hear the joint character description, it framed allot of talk we had on here about it and put allot of evidence into context. I actually thought it very damning even without her making any mistakes and lying. Really damning as well to hear and Read of her lack of emotional output Only for doc choc And distant memories? Home and Work etc. not at all moved by the people whose babies you harmed ? They weren’t far from her were they. Grim. I do wonder what the jury have said About her when they saw that. They actually might have clocked it quicker for seeing her.

 

[Dotta]

@squish where you from ? Very distinct accent you have there. .

I have no idea of accents haha

But both have very pleasant voices.
And very youthful sounding

Very interesting conversation.
It is a pleasure to hear forum friends speaking.

Well done!

 

[Dotta]

"One father, whose baby Letby tried to murder, told the Mail:

'I'm disgusted and angry that Letby is appealing.

'As if we haven't been through enough.
We are trying to rebuild our lives and now this, it's a joke of a system.
I don't understand on what grounds she can appeal - there were no mitigating factors in the trial.'

Letby's application comes after a scientist launched a fundraising campaign claiming the case against her was built on 'unreliable expert advice' and 'a bad grasp' of science."

Father whose baby Letby tried to murder 'disgusted' about her appeal

Child serial killer nurse Lucy Letby has formally filed a bid to challenge her conviction at the Court of Appeal, officials have said.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Cuko]

Yes - why is that?

In the UK they would be anti-vax, masks can kill you, climate change is a hoax, Brexit is an incredible success. Oh and if you got run over by a bus or died for any reason at all and had been vaccinated in the previous six months your death was due to the vaccine.

You summed that up perfectly!

 

[Cuko]

Could they allege there was something wrong with the jury?

Afraid I don’t know the answer to that.

 

[Parker Knoll]

The appeal may include a procedural problem with the jury or a problem with jury selection/conduct but we will have to wait and see what path they are going down.
I wouldn’t worry … Myra Hindley appealed and got nowhere fast.
It’s not like she’s got anything better to do atm.

 

[Sweeper2000]

You never know, she could sneak out the prison on bed sheets tied to the underside of a truck.

Gone Commando letby. Drops mic, leaves building.

 

[Eloise]

An appeal is, IMO, not unexpected.

Doesn't mean it'll get anywhere, and I think it's an important legal, ethical and moral right.

 

[Kemug]

Yes, an appeal was certainly to be expected. If I was in her shoes (which trust me, I never will be) I would certainly be appealing. Because it would be too hard to immediately give up all hope of ever being free again. Plus, she would be doing it partly for her parents, to maintain an appearance of innocence, and they would want/expect her to.

 

[cottonweaver]

@squish where you from ? Very distinct accent you have there. . I was a bit surprised by your description of her being a toothy person. I did think she would shy away from confrontation, you described a fronty person.


really interesting video guys, well done on its production. A chat from Possibly two of the most informed talkers on the case on the web. you actually were at the trial as well. Excellent.

Fascinating to hear the joint character description, it framed allot of talk we had on here about it and put allot of evidence into context. I actually thought it very damning even without her making any mistakes and lying. Really damning as well to hear and Read of her lack of emotional output Only for doc choc And distant memories? Home and Work etc. not at all moved by the people whose babies you harmed ? They weren’t far from her were they. Grim. I do wonder what the jury have said About her when they saw that. They actually might have clocked it quicker for seeing her.

Just listened to it.

It's great. I don't want to get told off for going into detail on why it's a great two-hander but @CS2C @squish this is the kind of detailed deep dive I'd expected from the Mail podcast after verdict but didn't get.

Anyway, re the issue of late discovery, wondering if LL is going to try and use late disclosure as one of her appeal grounds ( However, IDK what that 27 pages for 30 minutes contained , you didn't say if it was just photos of LL out on the town to impeach a claim that she's made earlier to Myers KC? If it's that, probably not arguable/ grounds)

 

[Marantz4250b]

Of all the pulled out of thin air speculative theories on here, I think you can sleep safely in the knowledge that this is not a twist you'll ever wake up to.

I wouldn't be too sure on that, tbh.

If the "affair" with the doctor hadn't been relevant and wasn't brought up a trial then people might be saying similar things about the likelihood of her carrying on with a doctor.

 

[Marantz4250b]

If there were any kind of relationship between LL and Chambers, surely there’d have been messages found on her phone? We know she’s not the type to delete anything!

There may have been but it would only have been presented as evidence if the prosecution thought it relevant to their cases.

We DO know that he phoned her, though! That proves that he knew her personally and well enough to become personally involved.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Nurse Lucy Letby is to appeal against all of her convictions of murdering seven babies and attempting to kill another six.
Her legal team has lodged an application to appeal according to the Court of Appeal Criminal Division.

Lucy Letby to appeal against baby murder convictions

The nurse became the UK's most prolific child killer in modern times when she was convicted last month.

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm interested to find out on what precise grounds she is appealing. You can't just say sorry, I don't like the fact that I was convicted, please give me another go.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I am wondering if they are appealing the WLO’s on the AM ?

You may be right. I can't see the point, however, as she's still got WLO's in respect of the murders.

 

[CS2C]

Just listened to it.

It's great. I don't want to get told off for going into detail on why it's a great two-hander but @CS2C @squish this is the kind of detailed deep dive I'd expected from the Mail podcast after verdict but didn't get.

Anyway, re the issue of late discovery, wondering if LL is going to try and use late disclosure as one of her appeal grounds ( However, IDK what that 27 pages for 30 minutes contained , you didn't say if it was just photos of LL out on the town to impeach a claim that she's made earlier to Myers KC? If it's that, probably not arguable/ grounds)

Thank you Cotton, I should have part two out later this evening.

The feeling that I got in court was that this procedure was fairly routine although for someone like myself it did seem a little surprising. Benjamin Myers didn't exactly offer much resistance to this document being brought into evidence (More of a token complaint if anything)

And as I say the document itself was basically the contents of her phone which looked at how she lived her life between the period of her suspension until her arrest and the fact she had lied on at least two occasions to the Jury in her defence statement. I think a point NJ was trying to make also related to the notes she wrote and how she was seemingly outwardly living her best live but still felt the need to write those post it notes, not so much because she was going through a terrible time and was isolated but because of her guilt for what she had done.

 

[Marantz4250b]

You need to show there was something seriously wrong with how the initial trial was conducted for it to be even allowed to go to appeal.

Or that you have new evidence. I think that is highly unlikely, though.

 

[cottonweaver]

Also @CS2C Just had a look at one of your old ones and although you caveat it with ' I can't verify...' it appears correct.
She chose to buy a house which literally backs onto the child's memorial garden at Blacon cemetery.

Local historian's detailed walk-thru of the cemetery incl photos of baby garden, at link below
'In addition to the child graves amidst other inhumation burials, there is also a dedicated child burial ground. It is discretely hedged with a semi-circular path with memorial ‘gravestones’ bearing the names of multiple children. These focus on a dolphin sculpture. Off from this are two separate enclosed burial grounds containing small plots of child graves, each with a small white gravestone and with a host of ephemeral offerings: toys, windmills and garden ornaments.'

Blacon Cemetery Explored in the Rain – Contemporary Past 18/19 Field Trip 7

And so the field trip-rich investigations of the second-year Contemporary Past group finally reach Chester crematorium and its adjacent cemetery at Blacon. In contrast to Rhosllanerchrugog cemetery…

howardwilliamsblog.wordpress.com

Can see the back of No 41 more clearly in this local news item, linked below, on the childs' burial ground new dolphin sculpture being installed

• 11 MAY 2017 Cheshire Live....' A moving ceremony accompanied the unveiling of a special bronze statue in the Baby Memorial Garden at Blacon Crematorium...the garden, which was opened as a joint venture with Chester Childbirth Appeal .... a poignant poem called Dancing with Dolphins was read by two young friends whose baby brothers are buried in the cemetery...It gives grieving parents a place to spend a quiet moment while visiting the graves of their precious lost babies...' ( Bishop of Chester attended. Every year same bishop holds a memorial service for all lost babies including neonatal, still births, cot deaths... Major efforts by local charity workers on these endeavours. )

This special addition has been made to Chester's Baby Memorial Garden

A moving ceremony was held at Blacon Crematorium

www.cheshire-live.co.uk

I feel sorry for those parents and charity workers who visit this memorial garden. Maybe No 41 should be purchased and then demolished out of respect for them?

You can also see back of No 41 in relation to the Baby Memorial Garden at GoogleMaps satellite view 39 Westbourne Rd · 39 Westbourne Rd, Chester CH1 5BA, UK

 

[Dotta]

LL listens to the verdicts

Lucy Letby's parents refused to believe her guilt as they stood by her

Susan, 63, and John, 77, had been a constant presence during her ten-month trial at Manchester Crown Court and attended every day.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Parker Knoll]

In reality was it “ new evidence “ NJ introduced or just a new way of presenting it ? Photos of her had already been shown to the jury on this point.
Without being in court I couldn’t say but @CS2C was and BM wasn’t unduly concerned. From reports it was a bound document that had been produced by the prosecution that morning showing her out and about when effectively she should not of been socialising with certain friends.
It’s a REALLY weak point in any event, I suppose BM could use it as a procedural error if one had indeed been made but it doesn’t hold much weight if any.
He has far bigger fish to fry right now.

 

[CS2C]

In reality was it “ new evidence “ NJ introduced or just a new way of presenting it ? Photos of her had already been shown to the jury on this point.
Without being in court I couldn’t say but @CS2C was and BM wasn’t unduly concerned. From reports it was a bound document that had been produced by the prosecution that morning showing her out and about when effectively she should not of been socialising with certain friends.
It’s a REALLY weak point in any event, I suppose BM could use it as a procedural error if one had indeed been made but it doesn’t hold much weight if any.
He has far bigger fish to fry right now.

I believe it was new and that was the reason why Lucy was given the documents and allowed 30 minutes to go through them before then being asked questions on them.