UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

[mrC]

wishi ould find the report of the first inquery its was remoed from the hospitals page

 

[cottonweaver]

wishi ould find the report of the first inquery its was remoed from the hospitals page

do you mean the CQC report or one of the reviews they commissioned into the NNU?

 

[mrC]

yes the one they did beore the arest

 

[Trebor5591]

Cameras at each bedside, recording everything. I know it won't necessarily prevent nurses over-sedating patients, but at least they know they're being watched.

IMO, and thinking about this some more, the more I think about it, the less I like the idea. What a huge violation of patient privacy it would be. I personally would never, ever, consent to be admitted to a hospital where there was a camera at my bedside, recording all burps, food spills, tears, cries, needle sticks, catherization's, bedpan use, etc. Just horrible to contemplate, frankly. I suspect that any hospital who would implement this "bigbrother" idea would quickly empty of patients. MOO.

 

[cottonweaver]

Must admit I find it a scary proposition.
We already know patient data in Palantir's hands has been setting off alarm bells for a few years.
Spy tech firm Palantir founded with support from the US Central Intelligence Agency in 2003. Palantir won lucrative Govt contracts without tender.

Palantir: NHS faces legal action over data firm contract

Controversial data-crunching firm Palantir's deal with the UK health service is under the spotlight.

www.bbc.co.uk

How Palantir is strengthening its hold on NHS patient data

As the NHS signs its latest deal with the US data analytics company, Stephen Armstrong examines Palantir’s growing foothold in the English NHS On 20 June NHS England awarded a new £25m contract to the US data analytics company Palantir to move its existing NHS covid-19 and elective recovery...

www.bmj.com

 

[notsure]

IMO, and thinking about this some more, the more I think about it, the less I like the idea. What a huge violation of patient privacy it would be. I personally would never, ever, consent to be admitted to a hospital where there was a camera at my bedside, recording all burps, food spills, tears, cries, needle sticks, catherization's, bedpan use, etc. Just horrible to contemplate, frankly. I suspect that any hospital who would implement this "bigbrother" idea would quickly empty of patients. MOO.

Really? Even if it meant you were safer? I'm the most fiercely private person you could meet, but when I'm in a hospital bed, with the burps, catheterisations, etc. that you mention (and I've experienced all that), I don't actually care who witnesses it.

Do you think there is privacy on a hospital ward at the moment? Last time I was an inpatient, any person could wander in off the street.

But even if they didn't have the bedside cameras, bodycams on nurses/paramedics are already in use in some places. Implementing those as standard for all patient/health worker interaction seems like a good idea as a safety measure.

It seems like craziness to trust people not to harm us just because they're wearing medical uniforms.

 

[Dotta]

Statement of Patient Safety Commissioner on Lucy Letby case​

https://www.patientsafetycommissioner.org.uk/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1698735970177139170

 

[LondonBloke]

Statement of Patient Safety Commissioner on Lucy Letby case​

https://www.patientsafetycommissioner.org.uk/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1698735970177139170

In all cases of governmental discourse I'm reminded of the phrase "fine words butter no parsnips".

 

[marynnu]

IMO, and thinking about this some more, the more I think about it, the less I like the idea. What a huge violation of patient privacy it would be. I personally would never, ever, consent to be admitted to a hospital where there was a camera at my bedside, recording all burps, food spills, tears, cries, needle sticks, catherization's, bedpan use, etc. Just horrible to contemplate, frankly. I suspect that any hospital who would implement this "bigbrother" idea would quickly empty of patients. MOO.

I agree. It's a ludicrous idea.

 

[LondonBloke]

IMO, and thinking about this some more, the more I think about it, the less I like the idea. What a huge violation of patient privacy it would be. I personally would never, ever, consent to be admitted to a hospital where there was a camera at my bedside, recording all burps, food spills, tears, cries, needle sticks, catherization's, bedpan use, etc. Just horrible to contemplate, frankly. I suspect that any hospital who would implement this "bigbrother" idea would quickly empty of patients. MOO.

I very much understand the desire for cameras in medical settings for the purposes of 'maintaining good order' but also the many valid arguments against what many might see as an 'imposition'.

Unfortunately it's a reflection of life today that such a debate needs to happen.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IDK what the solution is.
Has to be a combo, I suppose. ( Nurses themselves will know better. I don't normally read the Health/NHS section of the newspaper)

we already have a shortage of nurses

? Better pay & conditions, root out the dregs & improved vetting, closer supervision and better management, ensure they can't just move onto other trusts or agencies, publicise whistle-blowing campaigns to force faster change?

The worst thing about LL (as say compared to Beverly Allit) is that she could never have been 'weeded out' using any form of checking system as she was to all appearances well qualified, an all round good egg, 'nice Lucy' according to colleagues, 'beige Lucy' according to the lead detective who delved into all her affairs, worked hard, and didn't do anything that would flag her up to any alert system.

Unlike Allit who failed to attend college, IIRC didn't even pass her studies but ended up working on the children's ward of all things because it was the least staffed and most deprived of all wards and they were so desperate they took anyone. Horrific.

 

[Dotta]

The worst thing about LL (as say compared to Beverly Allit) is that she could never have been 'weeded out' using any form of checking system as she was to all appearances well qualified, an all round good egg, 'nice Lucy' according to colleagues, 'beige Lucy' according to the lead detective who delved into all her affairs, worked hard, and didn't do anything that would flag her up to any alert system.

Unlike Allit who failed to attend college, IIRC didn't even pass her studies but ended up working on the children's ward of all things because it was the least staffed and most deprived of all wards and they were so desperate they took anyone. Horrific.

Cameras would help to catch this maniac.
Remember her texting instead of feeding a patient?
And then feeding a Baby forcefully in short time, instead of doing it properly?
Not to mention other disgusting things.

I'm for cameras wholeheartedly, just like Police officers have to carry theirs.

I wouldn't mind at all as a patient.
They can film me and my hospital bed.
I wouldn't care.
At all!
I would even wave at the camera smiling broadly haha

Ooops
I hardly ever visit hospital as a patient

 

[marynnu]

Cameras would help to catch this maniac.
Remember her texting instead of feeding a patient?
And then feeding a Baby forcefully in short time, instead of doing it properly?
Not to mention other disgusting things.

I'm for cameras wholeheartedly, just like Police officers have to carry theirs.

I wouldn't mind at all as a patient.
They can film me and my hospital bed.
I wouldn't care.
At all!
I would even wave at the camera smiling broadly haha

Ooops
I hardly ever visit hospital as a patient

She would never have done anything so blatant if cameras were present, so would not have been caught. But injecting air? Simple. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Dotta]

She would never have done anything so blatant if cameras were present, so would not have been caught. But injecting air? Simple. Where there's a will, there's a way.

So let's do nothing!!
Nothing at all!!
Because a maniac will always find a way, right?
So why even bother???

So some say

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Cameras would help to catch this maniac.
Remember her texting instead of feeding a patient?
And then feeding a Baby forcefully in short time, instead of doing it properly?
Not to mention other disgusting things.

I'm for cameras wholeheartedly, just like Police officers have to carry theirs.

I wouldn't mind at all as a patient.
They can film me and my hospital bed.
I wouldn't care.
At all!
I would even wave at the camera smiling broadly haha

Ooops
I hardly ever visit hospital as a patient

100% agree, I feel the same way.

Anyway, in my opinion the day is rapidly coming whether we agree or not because clinicians will be too scared to touch someone and patients will be unwilling to be in hospital.

 

[marynnu]

So let's do nothing!!
Nothing at all!!
Because a maniac will always find a way, right?
So why even bother???

So some say

I'm just saying how it is. You'd be snooping on people for nothing. In the end, if someone is that determined to do harm you put in what safeguards you can, but you cannot 100% stop them.

 

[Dotta]

I'm just saying how it is. You'd be snooping on people for nothing. In the end, if someone is that determined to do harm you put in what safeguards you can, but you cannot 100% stop them.

This murderer's behaviour in this unit was in itself a big red flag waving madly.
How come nobody saw something was amiss with her is simply beyond my comprehension!

 

[cottonweaver]

The worst thing about LL (as say compared to Beverly Allit) is that she could never have been 'weeded out' using any form of checking system as she was to all appearances well qualified, an all round good egg, 'nice Lucy' according to colleagues, 'beige Lucy' according to the lead detective who delved into all her affairs, worked hard, and didn't do anything that would flag her up to any alert system.

Unlike Allit who failed to attend college, IIRC didn't even pass her studies but ended up working on the children's ward of all things because it was the least staffed and most deprived of all wards and they were so desperate they took anyone. Horrific.

Totally agree.
And you can't pre-screen for devious psychopaths like LL during the recruitment phase.

When I mentioned vetting in a list of options, I wasn't thinking of the LL case, it was in relation to that latest link on poor care from the two nurses - the ill treatment charges.

ofc LL's crimes could've been picked up earlier, once she was on the ward but my comment was about those other cases. But, moving off of the LL crimes, I don't have any simple solutions to the broader mess. I've never skimmed so many wiki entries on hospital scandals as I have this last fortnight. It is disturbing

 

[Eloise]

Really? Even if it meant you were safer? I'm the most fiercely private person you could meet, but when I'm in a hospital bed, with the burps, catheterisations, etc. that you mention (and I've experienced all that), I don't actually care who witnesses it.

Do you think there is privacy on a hospital ward at the moment? Last time I was an inpatient, any person could wander in off the street.

But even if they didn't have the bedside cameras, bodycams on nurses/paramedics are already in use in some places. Implementing those as standard for all patient/health worker interaction seems like a good idea as a safety measure.

It seems like craziness to trust people not to harm us just because they're wearing medical uniforms.

How many data/privacy violations are there vs how many murdering nurses and doctors are there?

I'll take the chance that the nurse or doctor treating me is just a normal person over the likelihood that my most vulnerable moments are being recorded tbh.

 

[cottonweaver]

Statement of Patient Safety Commissioner on Lucy Letby case​

https://www.patientsafetycommissioner.org.uk/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1698735970177139170

From your link

' Non-executive directors (NEDs) are the last line of defence within trusts.......The knowledge base of NHS NEDs about patient safety is patchy and inconsistent.....No specific qualifications or experience is required. Responsibility should be for patient safety not preserving the reputation of their organisation.'

( Recall that the old CoC's Board had 8 exec directors - such as Chambers and Harvey - and then 8 non execs. The current CoC board's NEDs are stacked with former accountant types. Susan Gilbey mentioned that when she was in the news after the verdict)

The commissioner is suggesting some drastic system changes, such as mandating
'mandate reporting as would be done in civil aviation or financial services. There is much that we can learn from high safety industries.'

BTW it's not just in those industries that mandatory reporting is basic.
PS Quite unusual to see this kind of language. She says that she is ' outraged' and I expect she expressed that when she met with health Minister last week