UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #35

[JosieJo]

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"Dr Shoo Lee, an academic who researched the phenomenon of air embolus in babies in 1989, gave evidence to the court of appeal on behalf of the defence, telling judges that the “only sign” of it was of pink blood vessels “superimposed” on a pink or blue body"

The defence had an expert on AE but only for this trial? How comes he came so late, present only in the appeal?

Anyone care to gauge why lucy letby showed emotion when the clip of Dr j talking about catching her was shown? I would guess its to do with her almost being forced to acknowledge that she was indeed caught in the act. Maybe the denial is actually a clinical thing in this one? Makes sense to me.

"It was clear that Letby had been shielded in prison from the full blaze of publicity that followed her convictions when, on day five, she became tearful as an ITV News interview with Jayaram was played in court. In the seconds-long clip, the doctor said walking in on Letby with Baby K was “etched in my nightmares for ever”. At this, she welled up, her only flicker of emotion throughout."

Throughout any sign of emotion was for herself.

To be able to sit there emotionless when babies parents weep at the verdict is just unfathomable to me.

 

[Sarahlou]

Throughout any sign of emotion was for herself.

To be able to sit there emotionless when babies parents weep at the verdict is just unfathomable to me.

It is, but I think if she was someone who would get emotional over the pain of others then she wouldn't have been able to do what she did in the first place. She has zero empathy.

 

[Honeybirdette]

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/20240702-R-v-Letby-Final-approved.pdf

The appeal doc has been reuploaded with paragraph 91 changed to “dr V” now

 

[Marantz4250b]

I can’t even begin to imagine the mindset of someone who wants to destroy a trial that’s gone on for so long, putting multiple families through unimaginable grief and stress, and potentially see a multiple baby murderer back on the streets - over an argument about a mobile phone.

I don't think that was their intention. I reckon it was just to get this particular juror into bother.

 

[Marantz4250b]

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/20240702-R-v-Letby-Final-approved.pdf

The appeal doc has been reuploaded with paragraph 91 changed to “dr V” now

I wonder how they realised the mistake?

To be honest, I wasn't sure it was a mistake. The reason Doc Choc and a few others had orders in place to prevent their names being reported was stated from the start as being so that the nature and quality* of their evidence was not compromised. It sounded to me like that would have been an order which would have died with the trial so I'd figured that the order did not apply to anything beyond the trial.

 

[Honeybirdette]

I wonder how they realised the mistake?

To be honest, I wasn't sure it was a mistake. The reason Doc Choc and a few others had orders in place to prevent their names being reported was stated from the start as being so that the nature and quality* of their evidence was not compromised. It sounded to me like that would have been an order which would have died with the trial so I'd figured that the order did not apply to anything beyond the trial.

I think he must have made an urgent phone call last night
I highly doubt he was granted lifelong anonymity though so not sure why his identity is still being protected at this point?
At the time it was because “his children were doing GCSE’s” …

 

[Sweeper2000]

Throughout any sign of emotion was for herself.

To be able to sit there emotionless when babies parents weep at the verdict is just unfathomable to me.

You are right. Easily the biggest disconnect I've ever heard of. Not even a flicker of anger, hurt or otherwise about being accused of this as far as we know. I'd guess she was no different in police interviews, hope they release them though.

If that was me and was falsely accused I would be incoherent up to the point of being angry looking all of them in the eye and saying "I did not do it".

Nope just that detachment plenty of people noticed quite early on.

 

[Dotta]

I just mean looking at him, I find it hard to believe

And yet,
She dedicated him a love song in her notes
and...
cried when heard his voice in the courtroom.

Isn't "beauty in the eye of the beholder"?

And as wise people say,
even monsters have feelings.
HUMAN monsters.

Besides
People should be judged by their behaviour
NOT
looks.

Oh, and by the way
It's good to look into the mirror sometimes

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

That's such a dotta thing to say.

 

[Honeybirdette]

Besides
People should be judged by their behaviour
NOT
looks.

Oh, and by the way
It's good to look into the mirror sometimes

JMO

I agree actually. We should be judging him by his behaviour….
Which is that he’s a sleazy, lying, unprofessional, married, cheating sc umbag who was showing his baby killing side piece confidential work emails (about the said babies she killed) whilst all the while trying to get into her very beige knickers despite having a wife and young children at home.

Not a nice bloke. Inside OR out

 

[Dotta]

I agree actually. We should be judging him by his behaviour….
Which is that he’s a married, cheating sc umbag who was showing his baby killing side piece confidential work emails (about the said babies she killed) whilst all the while trying to get into her very beige knickers.

Not a nice bloke. Inside OR out

Almost all of us here decided on his behaviour during the original trial.
I didn't see any fans of him here.
Quite the contrary.
I wrote myself my opinion of him.
Scathing one.

But ridiculing somebody's appearance is something completely different.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Was it confirmed then that they had indeed established a more intimate relationship? Or is it still speculation with the whole "texts continue on more personal matters" bit that was in the evidence?

 

[Honeybirdette]

I’m just going off the trips to london, the Cheshire oaks shopping trip, the meals out and country walks together that suggest this wasn’t a platonic relationship with a colleague.
Also, it doesn’t look like she was introduced to his wife at any point. You’d think she would be, if they were such close friends and all

 

[Honeybirdette]

Almost all of us here decided on his behaviour during the original trial.
I didn't see any fans of him here.
Quite the contrary.
I wrote myself my opinion of him.
Scathing one.

But ridiculing somebody's appearance is something completely different.

JMO

I wouldn’t go as far as saying I ridiculed him would you? I think I could have said a lot worse tbh. I said i thought it was unlikely it was letby who was the one chasing him and he was uninterested. A victim of “unrequited attention” as he described it.
LL was 25/26 at the time. Young, Blonde, mildly attractive and he was a Middle Aged married man with a bald head and glasses.
The math ain’t mathing.
Jmo

 

[Dotta]

I wouldn’t go as far as saying I ridiculed him would you? I think I could have said a lot worse tbh. I said i thought it was unlikely it was letby who was the one chasing him and he was uninterested. A victim of “unrequited attention” as he described it.
LL was 25/26 at the time. Young, Blonde, mildly attractive and he was a Middle Aged married man with a bald head and glasses.
The math ain’t mathing.
Jmo

"The math ain’t mathing"
when talking about feelings/emotions.

Whatever they may be.

She certainly was not cold hearted where THIS particular doctor was concerned.

As I wrote in my previous post.
(Song/crying/feeling betrayed/trying to impress HIM)

JMO

 

[Parker Knoll]

Well he’s no Brad Pitt that’s for sure.
He probably thought all his christmases had come at once !
Try explaining that away to his wife and children.
Personally the fact that he trotted out his MH over the last 4 years ( not surprising it’s shot tbh bearing in mind he was hanging around Britain’s most prolific serial killer ) which will ensure you won’t be getting 8 hrs blissful and the fact his kids were doing GCSEs at the time was incredulous to me. What happened to open justice here ? He can only give his best evidence if he’s anonymous?
He breached confidentiality, shared emails and information with her, promised her references, offered her his car, hid chocolate for her, shopping trips, London, lunches and walks but they were “ just friends “ ?
Yep - the math ain’t mathing for me either.
He didn’t know at the time but he was up to his neck in it.
It will be very interesting to see how the enquiry pans out for him.
JMO

 

[CatsnChickens]

Lucy Letby: Courtroom drama, a failed appeal, and battles over the truth

She was convicted of multiple baby murders, but then fell out of the headlines. Here’s what’s happened since.

www.bbc.co.uk

A bit more on what was unable to be reported before

 

[Marantz4250b]

Were they "just friends" or was there something actually intimate going on? I genuinely don't know but I would say that all the things we know about such as the shopping trips, London trip, chocs, etc, doesn't mean there was anything more involved happening. Is there any actual evidence of them spending a night away together or at her home. Not that I know of.

My impression of LL is that she's quite "stand off'ish" and reserved when it comes to things like that. She was early 20's, not unattractive, hard working, own house, car, outwardly sociable with people and a generally pleasant person to be around. She could (should?) have had a string of boyfriends yet we've heard not a single mention of anyone at all throughout her life other than Doctor Choc. Not even from anyone who's suggested that she ever even dated anyone. In an ideal world her goal seems to have been to snag a doctor - and we know how doctors are often driven to chase attractive nurses - so that would not seem a difficult task to accomplish for someone like her.

Maybe her "friendship" with Doc Choc arose because she saw him as someone who was "safe" and who maybe wouldn't actually do the dirty on the wife and kids so she wouldn't actually have to "put out" as our US friends so crudely refer to it?

Be interesting to find out what the attitude of that Church her and her parents were involved with was to sex before marriage - let alone encouraging adultery! Perhaps that might answer a few questions?

All MOO, obvs!

 

[Marantz4250b]

Chap at The Art Of Law gives a good summary of the reasons for her appeal being denied. He does excellent videos. HIs recent one on expert witnesses is worth checking out too.

As we've mentioned, actually hearing the story of the barney in the cafe and the stolen mobile and all that malarkey just sounds absolutely surreal given the gravity of the trial and what was possibly at stake!

 

[Sweeper2000]

The strongest indicator that I've seen is where the court said "texts continue of an informal nature". Would the court have a duty to conceal such information? If they do I reckon they both went commando.