UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #35

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
One thing that seems to have been forgotten by those LL apologists who claim that the babies’ deaths weren’t unexpected ( or worse still flippantly say that they were “going to die anyway”) is that after Baby D’s death LL herself referred to them as unexpected. This text message wouldn’t make sense if the deaths had been expected!

On a day-to-day basis it's an incredible job with so many positives. But sometimes I think, how do such sick babies get through & others just die so suddenly and unexpectedly? Guess it's how it's meant to be... I think there is an element of fate involved. There is a reason for everything.”

And her colleague also points out that Baby D was improving and you can tell by her reaction she’s shocked at the death… because it’s … unexpected!

“The 32-year-old…sent WhatsApp messages to another nurse on June 22 2015 following a shift where a baby, referred to as child D died…Letby sent the following message to a colleague: ‘We had such a rubbish night. Our job is just far too sad sometimes.’
She went on to say: ‘We lost (child D).’

Her colleague replied: ‘What!!!! But she was improving. What happened? Wanna chat? I can’t believe you were on again. You’re having such a tough time
.’”


 
This is interesting.

"• I write as a retired paediatrician in response to Felicity Lawrence’s article about the evidence in the trial of Lucy Letby.

Before 2005, a procedure known as the “whoosh” test was commonly used to inject air through a nasogastric tube in neonates. By listening for a “whoosh” over the abdomen, the sound of expelled air indicated that the distal end of the feeding tube was correctly sited.

This procedure was subsequently abandoned because of a lack of accuracy rather than safety.

Having reviewed the neonatal literature, I have not been able to identify any evidence of air injected into the stomach causing collapse or death."


It's saying air was injected into the NG tube as a routine matter that never compromised safety. Anyone who worked within the field know anything about it?

Does seem to throw some doubt about that aspect of the cases but lacking detail atm. Might not be relevant to the specifics.
 
"The whoosh test is undertaken by rapidly injecting air down an NGT while auscultating over the epigastrium. Gurgling is indicative of air entering the stomach, whilst its absence suggests the tip of the NGT is elsewhere (lung, oesophagus, pharynx, and so on). The article [1], and an associated guideline [2], outlaws totally the use of the whoosh test."

 
This is interesting.

"• I write as a retired paediatrician in response to Felicity Lawrence’s article about the evidence in the trial of Lucy Letby.

Before 2005, a procedure known as the “whoosh” test was commonly used to inject air through a nasogastric tube in neonates. By listening for a “whoosh” over the abdomen, the sound of expelled air indicated that the distal end of the feeding tube was correctly sited.

This procedure was subsequently abandoned because of a lack of accuracy rather than safety.

Having reviewed the neonatal literature, I have not been able to identify any evidence of air injected into the stomach causing collapse or death."


It's saying air was injected into the NG tube as a routine matter that never compromised safety. Anyone who worked within the field know anything about it?

Does seem to throw some doubt about that aspect of the cases but lacking detail atm. Might not be relevant to the specifics.
None of us knows exactly how she did it, which is why the judge directed the jury to find whether, not how, harm was inflicted. This chap cannot know how much air was pumped in, or how the babies were positioned, or if she did something additional to them (as screams evidenced), like pumping in more air as they were trying to expel air, but the evidence was that some of their stomachs were ballooned. The evidence with baby G of force feeding milk with the syringe, did seriously compromise her, even though she projectile vomited. It is a little too similar to the idea of pumping in large volumes of air to be dismissed out of hand by these commentators who were not sufficiently interested to attend the trial and hear the evidence first hand. Myers KC was not born yesterday. IMO.
 
One thing that seems to have been forgotten by those LL apologists who claim that the babies’ deaths weren’t unexpected ( or worse still flippantly say that they were “going to die anyway”) is that after Baby D’s death LL herself referred to them as unexpected. This text message wouldn’t make sense if the deaths had been expected!

On a day-to-day basis it's an incredible job with so many positives. But sometimes I think, how do such sick babies get through & others just die so suddenly and unexpectedly? Guess it's how it's meant to be... I think there is an element of fate involved. There is a reason for everything.”

And her colleague also points out that Baby D was improving and you can tell by her reaction she’s shocked at the death… because it’s … unexpected!

“The 32-year-old…sent WhatsApp messages to another nurse on June 22 2015 following a shift where a baby, referred to as child D died…Letby sent the following message to a colleague: ‘We had such a rubbish night. Our job is just far too sad sometimes.’
She went on to say: ‘We lost (child D).’

Her colleague replied: ‘What!!!! But she was improving. What happened? Wanna chat? I can’t believe you were on again. You’re having such a tough time
.’”



Another quote where LL refers to the 3 deaths as unexpected and Baby Ds death as another shock!

She described the unexpected death, the third on the unit in two weeks, as “another shock for us all” and said she felt “numb”.

On June 26 she messaged another friend and colleague, Minna Lappalainen, and said: “Work has been awful.

We have had three unexpected deaths, transfer out, few sick ones, unit full
.


 
Last edited:
RSBM
It's saying air was injected into the NG tube as a routine matter that never compromised safety. Anyone who worked within the field know anything about it?

Does seem to throw some doubt about that aspect of the cases but lacking detail atm. Might not be relevant to the specifics.
I think this quote is apt :

"In her hands, innocuous substances like air, milk, fluids - or medication like insulin - would become lethal. She perverted her learning and weaponised her craft to inflict harm, grief and death.”

So, the fact that air or milk in the NGT in certain amounts can cause no problems doesn’t mean that those things cant be used to cause harm in larger amounts .

Also interesting that some LL apologists have protested previously that it would not be possible to inject any amount of air down a NGT. Now they’re arguing that it was commonplace.

 
Valid points tortoise. I don't understand the recent doubt about the convictions, reading them I can only assume they are not bringing all cases into one as the jury were instructed to. As an example you could take that piece by the doctor above as having impact on the NG tube cases but you can't dismiss the other cases at the same time which cumulatively indicate guilt.

Even the defence expert Dr hall said they couldn't explain how one of those children died if one doesn't seem to have an innocent explanation and is surrounded by the evidence we heard does that then mean that case does not have an innocent explanation? To me yes it does.

I'm getting annoyed with how much emphasis ppl are putting on the table showing she was there, to me it only ever meant she was on the unit at the time. It's totally insignificant imo.
 
Last edited:
I think this quote is apt :

"In her hands, innocuous substances like air, milk, fluids - or medication like insulin - would become lethal. She perverted her learning and weaponised her craft to inflict harm, grief and death.”

So, the fact that air or milk in the NGT in certain amounts can cause no problems doesn’t mean that those things cant be used to cause harm in larger amounts .

Also interesting that some LL apologists have protested previously that it would not be possible to inject any amount of air down a NGT. Now they’re arguing that it was commonplace.


She also perverted the symbol of care - a Nurse -
into grief and death.
:(

That is the ultimate betrayal of
the goal of a nurse,
which is to provide
"service to those in need."
 
This is interesting.

"• I write as a retired paediatrician in response to Felicity Lawrence’s article about the evidence in the trial of Lucy Letby.

Before 2005, a procedure known as the “whoosh” test was commonly used to inject air through a nasogastric tube in neonates. By listening for a “whoosh” over the abdomen, the sound of expelled air indicated that the distal end of the feeding tube was correctly sited.

This procedure was subsequently abandoned because of a lack of accuracy rather than safety.

Having reviewed the neonatal literature, I have not been able to identify any evidence of air injected into the stomach causing collapse or death."


It's saying air was injected into the NG tube as a routine matter that never compromised safety. Anyone who worked within the field know anything about it?

Does seem to throw some doubt about that aspect of the cases but lacking detail atm. Might not be relevant to the specifics.

I've done this test. You only put down about 0.5mls.
 
This is interesting.

"• I write as a retired paediatrician in response to Felicity Lawrence’s article about the evidence in the trial of Lucy Letby.

Before 2005, a procedure known as the “whoosh” test was commonly used to inject air through a nasogastric tube in neonates. By listening for a “whoosh” over the abdomen, the sound of expelled air indicated that the distal end of the feeding tube was correctly sited.

This procedure was subsequently abandoned because of a lack of accuracy rather than safety.

Having reviewed the neonatal literature, I have not been able to identify any evidence of air injected into the stomach causing collapse or death."


It's saying air was injected into the NG tube as a routine matter that never compromised safety. Anyone who worked within the field know anything about it?

Does seem to throw some doubt about that aspect of the cases but lacking detail atm. Might not be relevant to the specifics.
We still do this where I work. It's 1 ml of air. And we pull it back out. I actually prefer to palpate the location of the "whoosh" rather than listen. So anyhow, done according to protocol it's not dangerous. When we place something called a duodenal tube (a feeding tube), we also use 10-20 ml/kg of air "whooshed" in to stimulate the pylorus (valve at bottom of stomach) and cause it to open so the tube can pass through. This is a standard practice. We try to aspirate out as much air as we can when we are done, but for comfort, not because of safety.

Abdominal distention can cause what is called "respiratory embarrassment" where the abdominal contents impinge on the space the lungs need to do their job. In general it will cause actionable signs of respiratory distress long before it causes respiratory failure, except in special and unmistakable cases like abdominal compartment syndrome or the congenital diaphragmatic hernia mentioned up thread.

To me this suggests that it would have taken a very large, non accidental amount of air to cause the collapses where this was posited as the cause. Jmo. Not a doctor. [Smiley removed it gave me the creeps!]
 
Now seems like a good time to remember the real victims . From the parents’ victim impact statements ( Fuller versions available on the link but am quoting snippets to comply with WS quoting rules. )


Child A and B

The children’s mother said:
“Never could we have imagined that the most precious things in our lives would have been placed in harm’s way in the care of a nurse, who is capable of such despicable actions. We never got to hold our little boy while he was alive because you took him away. Our minds are [so] traumatised that it won’t let us remember most of the night where you killed our child. What should have been the happiest time of our lives had become our worst nightmare.

After losing [Child A], not only were we absolutely traumatised at what had happened, we were riddled with fear for our baby girl.“We are so thankful that we had that fear for [Child B] as it saved her life, not allowing you to fully do the same to her as you did to [Child A]. After losing [Child A], we made sure that there was always a member of family at her side watching. However, we made a mistake. We started to believe that what happened to [Child A] was a tragic event that we couldn’t have [been] stopped. We trusted that [Child B] would be given extra special care, it had certainly appeared that way. Little did we know that you were waiting for us to leave so you could attack the one thing that gave us a reason to keep going on in life.

She added: “You thought it was your right to play God with our children’s lives…We hope you live a very long life and spend every single day suffering for what you have done. Maybe you thought by doing this you would be remembered for ever. But I want you to know my family will never think of you again. From this day you are nothing.”

Child C

His mother choked back tears as she said… “Our two sets of parents held [Child C] for the first and only time in the hours that he lay dying. It was a pain for us all that was just too hard to bear. The trauma of that night will live with all of us until the day we die. Knowing now that his murderer was watching us throughout these traumatic hours is like something out of a horror story.”

“In the darkness of the days, weeks and months that followed [Child C’s] death, I would open his memory box. I would smell his familiar smell, I would touch his hand print. His hand and footprint were made into a pendant, I wore it round my neck. It made me feel closer to him.
“On 3 July 2018, when Lucy Letby was first arrested, these few tangible memories I had of my son felt tainted. She took those hand and foot prints, I felt so conflicted as to what that meant, so I stopped wearing them.

“Now we know as much about [Child C’s] death as I believe we ever will, I feel able to wear his hand and foot prints for the first time in five years… Addressing Letby in her absence, she said: “I am horrified that someone so evil exists. To you, our son’s life was collateral damage in your persistent desire for drama, attention, praise and sympathy.”

She added: “There is no sentence that will ever compare to the excruciating agony we have suffered as a consequence of your murder of our son. But at least now there is no debate – that, in your own words, you killed them on purpose. You are evil. You did this.”

Child D

Child D’s mother told the court:“Her wicked sense of entitlement and abuse of her role as a trusted nurse is truly a scandal. Lucy Letby, you failed God and the plans he had for [Child D]. You even called it ‘fate’. You were clearly disconnected with God.
“After today, I hope to be free of this limbo state I have been stuck in. The heavy load constantly on my mind has deeply changed me. My heart broke into a million pieces the second [Child D] lost her battle against evil, and that is when hell broke loose for us.
“Those lives were not yours to take and although I am torn with sadness, anger and unanswered questions, I cannot forgive you. There is no forgiving. Not now, not ever…
“We had to organise her funeral. You don’t choose the date. The service took place the day before her due date. Her ashes were buried in a tiny box on her actual due date.”

“We still have [Child D’s] death to declare officially, and this could not be done until the cause of death had been agreed. This is going to be another difficult thing to do, going to the registrar and declare our daughter’s death eight years after her birth.
“We wanted justice for [Child D] and that day has come.”

Child E and Child F

Their mother said: “On the 3 August 2015, our world shattered when we encountered evil disguised as a caring nurse. Losing [Child E ]was the most difficult thing we have ever experienced. The heartbreak and shock left me feeling confused and numb. How could [Child E] collapse so suddenly after spending the day cuddling with us?
“While caring for [Child F], we lived in constant fear of losing him too, especially during the night following [Child E’s] death. I thought, ‘Please, not again.’ I spent the entire night with [Child F] watching him closely and hoping his heart rate would stabilize. It was a living nightmare.”…

She added that after her son’s death, “Lucy bathed [Child E], an action I deeply regret, and dressed him in a woollen gown. He was buried in that gown, a gift from the unit chosen by Lucy. I feel sickened by the choice we made. Not a single day passes without distress over this decision.”
She continued: “Lucy presented herself as kind, caring, and soft-spoken. Now I know it was all an act, a sadistic abuse of power that has left me unable to trust anyone.

“I would like to thank Lucy for taking the stand and showing the court what she is really like once the ‘nice Lucy’ mask slips. It was honestly the best thing she could have done to ensure our boys got the justice they deserve. We have been living a nightmare, but for me, it ends today. I refuse to wake up with my first thought be[ing] about my boys being harmed. Lucy no longer has control over our lives. She holds no power or relevance in anybody’s life. She is nothing. We have all been robbed of so much.

“She has repeatedly disrespected my boy’s memory. Even in these final days of the trial she has tried to control things. The disrespect she has shown the families and the court show what type of person she is. We have attended court day in and day out, yet she decides she has had enough, and stays in her cell, just one final act of wickedness from a coward.”

Child G

Her father said: “Every day I would sit there and pray. I would pray for God to save her. He did. He saved her, but the devil found her.”He said their child now has brain damage, is registered blind, and is fed through a tube.
Speaking about receiving the call to say someone had been arrested, he said: “I just didn’t expect that. I just want it to be over now.

Child I

Child I’s mother said: “I don’t think we will ever get over the fact that our daughter was tortured till she had no fight left in her and everything she went through over her short life was deliberately done by someone who was supposed to protect her and help her come home where she belonged.”

On the night [Child I] died, she said, things looked like they were improving, but then she collapsed. “I remember standing by the incubator with my hand on her foot because there was only room for us at the bottom. I was shaking, I couldn’t look at the monitors because I knew she was a lot worse than all the other times, I felt absolutely broken. When they handed [Child I ] to us we never wanted to let her go. We held her so tight. She was our gorgeous little princess and I can’t even begin to explain the pain. When we lost her a part of us died with her.”

She outlined the huge impact the death of her daughter has had on her and her husband. “We were both absolutely broken that someone could do something so evil to our precious little girl and this has had a massive effect on our family even until this day,”… “We dug for years, trying to get answers for what had happened, and over the years we have been in some very dark places mentally.”

Child L and Child M

In a statement read to the court, the twins’ father said: “I was first on the scene when [Child M ] had his collapse, and that image has been forever etched in my mind and this case has been going on for five-plus years. The stress and strain have been unbearable at times and my mental health has suffered as a consequence of this case…
He added: “One extra thing I would like to add is that there was a day when I was at the trial and the public gallery was full and I was sat in Lucy Letby’s line of view and she kept looking over at me. That made me feel quite uncomfortable and uneasy and I had to move in the afternoon so I was out of her view.”

The twins’ mother said: “I was second on the scene when M had his collapse as I was still on the ward at the time. My mental health has suffered as a consequence of this case and I have some good days, some bad, especially as the trial was about to begin and anxiety levels increased.”

Child N

The mother of Child N, who survived, said she always knew her son had been deliberately harmed. She said she felt “happy and relieved” when the police got in contact to say they were investigating Letby because “we felt like we were being listened to”.

“Finally we would receive some answers,” she said. “We just questioned why a healthy baby boy was fine one minute and bleeding from the mouth and needing CPR the next.”
The woman outlined the impact on her family “all because of the evil actions of someone else”. She said: “This caused us massive trust issues which has remained with us to this day and I don’t think will ever leave us.”…

She ended her statement by saying they thought long and hard about whether to talk about the impact of Letby’s crimes: “We don’t want her to know the damage she’s left … we didn’t want her to get any further satisfaction from the hurt that she’s caused.”

Child O and Child P

The boys’ mother described being in a state of shock after two of her triplets were murdered. She remembers the images of doctors resuscitating her two boys, saying they “continue to haunt me to this day”. She has only one photograph of her holding all of her triplet boys before two of them died. She continues to be haunted by “vivid images” from the time and lives in “constant fear” of anything happening to her children. Letby had been the last person to hold Child P and she had dressed him after he died.She added: “She has destroyed our lives.”

The children’s father remembered the caesarian section being “a terrifying event”, but that the boys were born well with no complications. “I spent a brief bit of time holding the boys. We were so excited at how well they were doing and we commented at how identical they were. It was almost impossible to tell them apart.”
Describing the impact of their deaths, he described the effect on his mental health and how the couple had separated at one point, though are now reconciled, because of the strain. He had found himself “on the edge”. He said he was “out of control”: “I was at rock bottom. I had lost my job, [my partner].”

Hearing the evidence in the trial “sent shivers down my spine”, he said. “Lucy Letby has destroyed our lives. The anger and hatred I have for her will never go away. It has destroyed me as a man, as a father. Even after the trial has ended it will continue to haunt us and continue to have an impact on our lives.”


Fuller version here : ‘Lucy Letby has destroyed our lives’ – the family victim statements | Lucy Letby | The Guardian

Child K

Fighting back tears, Baby K’s mother told a silent courtroom how she and her husband had been “beyond ecstatic and overwhelmed with love” when they heard their unborn child’s heartbeat for the first time, after a previous miscarriage.
She described how their loss had affected every area of their lives, damaging their relationships, friendships and careers. “The impact is across all aspects of your life,” she said, “like ripples in the water, layer by layer of your life is touched”.As relatives became emotional in the public gallery, Baby K’s mother said the “biggest future struggle that plagues us each day” was how to tell their children about her death.

“The devastation expands so far and for so long when a child is lost let alone under these circumstances,” she said. “Will we get answers and the verdict that we want? Will that actually bring some peace and closure?”

Addressing Letby from the witness box, Baby K’s mother said her daughter was “not here, never will be, we will never have what would give us peace, closure, or a feeling of being complete family unit”.
She went on: “However, you, Lucy Letby, will never hurt another child or have the privilege and joy that children give.

“Our time and effort that you have absorbed over the years will stop today and our focus will remain on our beautiful children and building the most exciting and love-filled life that we possibly can.”

 
Last edited:
I’ve just read on Twitter she has appealed her latest verdict. Can anyone verify this please??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
162
Guests online
287
Total visitors
449

Forum statistics

Threads
609,435
Messages
18,254,048
Members
234,650
Latest member
Ebelden
Back
Top