UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[MrsWatson]

I dont think her dad abused her. A family friend reportedly did and then there was another guy who ran some sort of sex cult I think. I think she then went home after that and then met Epstein.

I'd not heard she had been the victim of a sex cult. Do you have a link handy for that?

 

[UK Girl]

Sex cult may not be the

I'd not heard she had been the victim of a sex cult. Do you have a link handy for that?

Sex cult may not be the right word...possibly someone like Epstein I guess.

Early life
Virginia Giuffre was born Virginia Louise Roberts[14] in Sacramento, California, on August 9, 1983, to parents Sky and Lynn Roberts.[15][16] The family relocated to Loxahatchee in Palm Beach County, Florida, when she was four years old.[16] Giuffre has a younger brother.[17] It was reported that she had come from a "troubled home"[17] and, from the age of seven, was molested by a close family friend.[2] Giuffre told the Miami Herald that she went from being in "an abusive situation, to being a runaway, to living in foster homes".[18] She lived on the streets at age 13 before getting abused by a 65-year-old sex trafficker, Ron Eppinger, in Miami.[19] Giuffre lived with Eppinger for approximately 6 months.[14] Eppinger reportedly ran a front business for international sex trafficking known as the modeling agency "Perfect 10".[20] He was raided by the FBI and later pleaded guilty to charges of alien smuggling for prostitution, interstate travel for prostitution, and money laundering.[20]

At the age of 14, Giuffre reunited with her father and returned to live with him. Her father worked as a maintenance manager at the Mar-a-Lago property owned by Donald Trump, and also helped Giuffre obtain a job there.[11]

 

[otto]

I was wondering about this earlier actually. What is the main reason for doing this? to see him in court? because I doubt very much thats going to happen. For money? Is she getting her lawyers pro bono? because...they dont even seem sure IF she wins...whether he can be forced to pay any money from here and secondly...I dont know that he even has any. He may be a Prince but in his case hes not exactly loaded and if she is paying her legal bills herself she could end up spending a fortune...and not getting anything for it. Incidentally if they really are thinking of calling Meghan and Charles.....thats just ugh

I doubt Prince Andrew has the kind of money that the lawsuit seeks. Senior working royals seem to receive some sort of annual allowance for personal expenses, but beyond that they appear to be protected and provided for through family.

As for the idea that Prince Andrew discussed his personal life from 20 years ago with Markle ??? bizarre. Furthermore, there is the small problem of Markle having to apologize for swearing a false affidavit to the courts. How can anyone believe anything she says.

 

[otto]

So, her father allegedly rescued her, then also abused her?

Since you appear, based on your multiple posts denigrating a victim of sexual assault, to think that Ms Giuffre is lying, could you explain what you think her motive would be? Can't be money, she's already had a sizable payout. She is doing this why?

Use small sentences, please, I seem to be dense on this.

I haven't read anything about Giuffre's father abusing her. Where did that come from?

 

[MrsWatson]

In any situation where one person makes a claim against another, it's important that we understand all aspects of the claim. We know that Giuffre's memory is unreliable, that she misremembers. We know that she believes that she was raped by Dershowitz and that she believes she participated in an orgy with Prince Andrew and 8 young girls. Both claims lack evidence at this time.

On the basis of one photo taken with Giuffre and Prince Andrew at Maxwell's house in London, we should believe that she was raped by Prince Andrew. He is basically guilty by association with Epstein. If Epstein abused teens, then all of his friends must have abused teens as well. Everyone who associated with Epstein must have the same morals and values as him - regardless of the fact that his enormous wealth attracted everyone from Trump to Clinton to Prince Andrew.

Giuffre was victimized throughout her life, first by family, then by one trafficker, later by another trafficker. Dershowitz, a lawyer, has said that she can be charged with victimizing others. I think we're all familiar with the cycle of abuse where an abuse victim becomes an abuser. I want to see evidence before taking the leap from one photo to rape.

Regarding money, didn't Giuffre receive millions from Epstein, and more millions from Maxwell at a later date? Isn't this lawsuit against Prince Andrew seeking money? If her lawsuit was seeking damages of $1.00, I would more easily believe that this is about justice.

I haven't read anything about Giuffre's father abusing her. Where did that come from?

Your post, BBM above. Or what family did you mean?

 

[otto]

I'd not heard she had been the victim of a sex cult. Do you have a link handy for that?

This describes Giuffre's history.

"Virginia Giuffre was born Virginia Louise Roberts[14] in Sacramento, California, on August 9, 1983, to parents Sky and Lynn Roberts.[15][16] The family relocated to Loxahatchee in Palm Beach County, Florida, when she was four years old.[16] Giuffre has a younger brother.[17] It was reported that she had come from a "troubled home"[17] and, from the age of seven, was molested by a close family friend.[2] Giuffre told the Miami Herald that she went from being in "an abusive situation, to being a runaway, to living in foster homes".[18] She lived on the streets at age 13 before getting abused by a 65-year-old sex trafficker, Ron Eppinger, in Miami.[19] Giuffre lived with Eppinger for approximately 6 months.[14] Eppinger reportedly ran a front business for international sex trafficking known as the modeling agency "Perfect 10".[20] He was raided by the FBI and later pleaded guilty to charges of alien smuggling for prostitution, interstate travel for prostitution, and money laundering.[20]
​

Virginia Giuffre - Wikipedia

 

[UK Girl]

I doubt Prince Andrew has the kind of money that the lawsuit seeks. Senior working royals seem to receive some sort of annual allowance for personal expenses, but beyond that they appear to be protected and provided for through family.

As for the idea that Prince Andrew discussed his personal life from 20 years ago with Markle ??? bizarre. Furthermore, there is the small problem of Markle having to apologize for swearing a false affidavit to the courts. How can anyone believe anything she says.

I'd not heard she had been the victim of a sex cult. Do you have a link handy for that?

Her lawyer said she might be called because shes American so only tells the truth. It was pretty weird.

Yes working Royals can get money from the Sovereign grant but...I am not really sure he has been classed as a working Royal for years now to be honest and doesnt really seem to have any money either. I think he does get a pension from when he was in the military but thats not a great deal.

 

[MrsWatson]

Okay, so there was no sex cult, let's get that straight.

If Prince Andrew had money, I highly doubt his ex-wife would be selling access to him, as she tried to do, nor would Epstein have given her what was it, £15,000? to help with her enormous debts nor would they be selling their ski chalet as they are right now.

So again, what motivation would Ms Giuffre have for this lawsuit, other than seeing him punished for what he did?

 

[Legally Bland]

If we're going to bring in the details of VRG's childhood prior to JE and GM (which I'm not entirely comfortable with personally), I think it's only fair that people can read it as told by VRG and not through the artistic licence of tabloids. Bottom of deposition page 164/PDF page 43.

DE 235-4 – #1090, Att. #32 in Giuffre v. Maxwell (S.D.N.Y., 1:15-cv-07433) – CourtListener.com

 

[UK Girl]

Okay, so there was no sex cult, let's get that straight.

If Prince Andrew had money, I highly doubt his ex-wife would be selling access to him, as she tried to do, nor would Epstein have given her what was it, £15,000? to help with her enormous debts nor would they be selling their ski chalet as they are right now.

So again, what motivation would Ms Giuffre have for this lawsuit, other than seeing him punished for what he did?

I did say that might not be the correct word

He isnt going to get punished in a civil trial though is he? and maybe she doesnt realise how skint he actually is?

 

[MrsWatson]

I did say that might not be the correct word

He isnt going to get punished in a civil trial though is he? and maybe she doesnt realise how skint he actually is? as for the ski chalet wasnt that being repossessed?

I think the world's knowledge that he is a rapist and a predator is punishment enough. Does it really matter if the ski chalet is being reprocessed or sold? Who cares? They clearly can't afford it, in either scenario.

MOO

ETA: Nope, his MUM, the Queen, paid it off. Queen 'will pay off Prince Andrew's £6.7million debt on French chalet' after threats to go to court | Daily Mail Online

 

[Legally Bland]

I was wondering about this earlier actually. What is the main reason for doing this? to see him in court? because I doubt very much thats going to happen. For money? Is she getting her lawyers pro bono? because...they dont even seem sure IF she wins...whether he can be forced to pay any money from here and secondly...I dont know that he even has any. He may be a Prince but in his case hes not exactly loaded and if she is paying her legal bills herself she could end up spending a fortune...and not getting anything for it. Incidentally if they really are thinking of calling Meghan and Charles.....thats just ugh

Boies is representing VRG pro bono.

For Boies, Giuffre’s case, which he has taken pro bono, is a chance to rewrite the last chapter of his career “He wants to preserve that reputation for posterity, long after he is gone.” Says Stephen Gillers, a professor at New York University

https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1436676076235800581
​

Maybe the main reason is as simple as VRG wants some kind of justice in the absence of a criminal prosecution. Maybe she thinks it could lead to one less vulnerable young person being exploited. Maybe she once felt powerless and is now at a stage in her life where she feels stronger. TBH, if her claims are proven I don't care if she's doing it purely for money.

 

[UK Girl]

I think the world's knowledge that he is a rapist and a predator is punishment enough. Does it really matter if the ski chalet is being reprocessed or sold? Who cares? They clearly can't afford it, in either scenario.

MOO

ETA: Nope, his MUM, the Queen, paid it off. Queen 'will pay off Prince Andrew's £6.7million debt on French chalet' after threats to go to court | Daily Mail Online

actually she didnt Prince Andrew to sell Swiss property to settle ongoing lawsuit (pagesix.com)

 

[UK Girl]

I think the world's knowledge that he is a rapist and a predator is punishment enough. Does it really matter if the ski chalet is being reprocessed or sold? Who cares? They clearly can't afford it, in either scenario.

MOO

ETA: Nope, his MUM, the Queen, paid it off. Queen 'will pay off Prince Andrew's £6.7million debt on French chalet' after threats to go to court | Daily Mail Online

A genuine question. All the females that passed through those doors has any female..apart from Virginia...accused him of "raping" them?

 

[MrsWatson]

If we're going to bring in the details of VRG's childhood prior to JE and GM (which I'm not entirely comfortable with personally), I think it's only fair that people can read it as told by VRG and not through the artistic licence of tabloids. Bottom of deposition page 164/PDF page 43.

DE 235-4 – #1090, Att. #32 in Giuffre v. Maxwell (S.D.N.Y., 1:15-cv-07433) – CourtListener.com

Agreed and thank you for posting the legally, sworn under oath, information VRG herself has provided. She is the victim here, not Prince Andrew.

 

[MrsWatson]

A genuine question. All the females that passed through those doors has any female..apart from Virginia...accused him of "raping" them?

He needs multiple victims to be guilty of rape?

 

[UK Girl]

He needs multiple victims to be guilty of rape?

I said I was curious. Nothing more nothing less. Epstein had many accusers so I was simply curious if anyone other than VG had accused him.

 

[MrsWatson]

I said I was curious. Nothing more nothing less. Epstein had many accusers so I was simply curious if anyone other than VG had accused him.

If there are other victims of sexual assault in any form from Prince Andrew, I hope the courage VRG has shown in coming forward and bringing this darkness into the light inspires them to also come forward.

 

[UK Girl]

If there are other victims of sexual assault in any form from Prince Andrew, I hope the courage VRG has shown in coming forward and bringing this darkness into the light inspires them to also come forward.

True story. A friend of mine was accused of rape even though he had proof to where he was that night. He ended up trying to commit suicide because he had been accused...of something horrible that he hadnt done so for me personally...I will never state that someone is guilty without a conviction.

For the record I do not like Andrew and I dont think he has helped himself but there are things I dont understand about all this so am curious what happens.

 

[MrsWatson]

Boies is representing VRG pro bono.

For Boies, Giuffre’s case, which he has taken pro bono, is a chance to rewrite the last chapter of his career “He wants to preserve that reputation for posterity, long after he is gone.” Says Stephen Gillers, a professor at New York University

https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1436676076235800581
​

Maybe the main reason is as simple as VRG wants some kind of justice in the absence of a criminal prosecution. Maybe she thinks it could lead to one less vulnerable young person being exploited. Maybe she once felt powerless and is now at a stage in her life where she feels stronger. TBH, if her claims are proven I don't care if she's doing it purely for money.

Thank you, @Legally Bland, for articulating just what I am thinking.

We are on the brink of 2022, and we are still living in a world that when a victim of sexual assault comes forward, they are still made to feel that it is somehow their fault. "Look what she had on." "She was flirty for a 15 year old, so I knew she wanted it." Those examples are not specific to this case, but examples.

As a survivor of sexual assualt, it's incredibly insulting to see VRG's claims dismissed, discounted, and her being called a liar. Especially on a victim friendly forum.

Yet why didn't other women who may have been assaulted by Prince Andrew not come forward? Or other women who were involved in that alleged orgy? Gee, what a mystery, why wouldn't they step up?

moo